Custer Battelfield Colt

Wonderful revolver and thread! Three questions: first, was the cutting down of barrels to the "artillery" length already well in hand by the time of the Army's involvement in the Philippines? Second: how much does the replacement of the grip affect the value of this kind of specimen? And just out of curiosity: how was the rear sight on this revolver modified? Thanks!
 
Recent archeological efforts at the battlefield..........

..............produced a large number of cartridge cases, and some projectiles. It could be proven if a particular firearm was used on the scene that day though forensic examinations.

The Custer revolver I would treasure above all others would be one found in relic condition on the battlefield with a mix of empty, and loaded cases in the cylinder. That would indeed be hand held history.

Thank you for sharing the images of this revolver.
 
I believe the three day James D. Julia firearms auction in March has a Custer battlefield pickup Colt SA to view in comparison. If I recall, this particular Colt will be in the third day items after the Elmer Keith collection.

The provenance of the OP's Colt shows time period confirmation to the 7th Cav, but as jpage notes, it doesn't guarantee it belonged to one of Custer's troopers but could have easily been issued to someone away from the primary battle.

THIS IS GREAT INFORMATION, mc5aw. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT INFORMATION CONFIRMS THE TO BE AUCTIONED REVOLVER AS A BATTLEFIELD PICK UP AT THE LAST STAND, THAT THE OP'S WEAPON LACKS--AND ALSO TO COMPARE THE PHYSICAL CONDITION. BTW---BEING AT WOUNDED KNEE IS NOT TOO SHABBY EITHER………..
 
THIS IS GREAT INFORMATION, mc5aw. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT INFORMATION CONFIRMS THE TO BE AUCTIONED REVOLVER AS A BATTLEFIELD PICK UP AT THE LAST STAND, THAT THE OP'S WEAPON LACKS--AND ALSO TO COMPARE THE PHYSICAL CONDITION. BTW---BEING AT WOUNDED KNEE IS NOT TOO SHABBY EITHER………..


Correction: The revolver I referenced is not a Colt SA but rather a Remington from the Arthur C. Unger collection. It can be seen on the J.Julia website as a preview item from the March auction. Scroll down a bit more than half the page of featured firearms and you will find it.
 
I have a ballistic question. If the issue .38 Revolvers were found to be inadequate against the Moros in the Philippines, why would they cut the 7.5" barrels back to 5.5"? Wouldn’t that lower the muzzle velocity?
 
What a great thread with so many interesting facts. This is the kind of thread that makes this forum so good.
 
I have a ballistic question. If the issue .38 Revolvers were found to be inadequate against the Moros in the Philippines, why would they cut the 7.5" barrels back to 5.5"? Wouldn’t that lower the muzzle velocity?

Depending of course on the load, a 230gr. bullet from a 7-1/2" SAA has a muzzle velocity of around 925 fps. The same projectile from a 5-1/2" SAA has a muzzle velocity of around 850 fps. This is just a guess but the difference in velocity is negligible when compared to the handling characteristics and convenience of a 5.5" versus a 7.5 barrel.
 
WAY COOL! I helped a lady authenticate and document a Colt SAA last year. The gun was a previously undiscovered US Marshall's gun in Indian Territory Oklahoma. It was her great grandfather's and had been handed down in her family. I helped her sell it at the Wannamacher show. It brought asking price and sold in 2 hours.
 
Well, no... The early Colt SAAs were sold to both the civilian & military market. The difference between a civilian & Army issue is easy to see. One, the civilian revolver grips were varnished wood, ivory or pearl depending on the owner's taste. All military issue were oiled wood. The military issue will have U.S. stamped on the left frame under the cylinder plus numerous inspector initials stamped on all parts.
The finish on military weapons were for the most part, blued with some nickel revolvers being issued. Officers had to purchase their own weapons and could either buy through company issue or order from the manufacturer and he had he choice of finish.
As to your question would other revolvers have the same value. The revolver in question is made up of military issued parts and there is where the demand is ,as military issued weapons always seem to demand more money to collectors.
So,in a short answer...no. Not to say a civilian Colt manufactured during the same period as the military revolvers can't bring the same high price, a lot would depend on condition, provenance, & embellishments. Civilian pieces just don't command the high price as the very early U.S. Colts. You have to remember, these old warhorses saw the brunt of the Indian Wars and were completely worn out before being replaced. You will find later model U.S. issued revolvers in better shape & usually with a lot of finish. It is hard to find very many of the Custer era revolvers under serial # 1-8800 anywhere and if you do, they have usually been rode hard & put up wet.
In this day & age if you should find one, beware of fakers as today there are many who can stamp marks & age them to look original. That is why the services of an experienced collector or someone like Kopec is needed, as they can spot a fake quite easily.
Early military Colts, S&W Americans & Schofields can become an investment and usually bring more than the stock market even if you would have bought just a little over 5 years ago. Kind'a scary, considering!!
As far as to the weapons found at the LBH, there have been several that surfaced but this includes the Springfield trapdoor carbines but all in all, just a few survived as a lot were captured by the Indians and some of those have surfaced in recent years for auction. I have read an article where a S&W Schofield was found on the battlefield which is possible as I said, officers were able to buy what kind of revolver they wanted. Custer carried a pair of Webleys.
Antique weapons are a lot of fun but you do have to do your homework.

Excellent posting Larry...
Somebody referenced this as being a "parts gun". Well, almost ALL the early martial SAA's are that way as all of these guns had been reworked/rebuilt at least once in their military service life. How these rebuilds were explained to me was: the armorers would take all the guns apart, and throw all the different pieces in different "barrels" (literally). Then, they would start with a frame, and re-fit all the needed parts to the guns using parts they picked out of the barrels (barrel lengths were cut from 7.5" down to 5.5" at that time too). They were certainly re-blued as part of this process too. As Larry so eloquently wrote "they were ridden hard and put away wet" in their service life, so whn they were rebuilt, they were usually pretty "rough" both mechanically and definitely finish wise.

I actually held a Custer SAA Colt (can't remember the ser. number) which had ALL the serial numbers matching. The speculation was that this particular gun was probably removed from the battlefield by an Indian since it obviously didn't go through the rebuild process as described above (but unfortunately its barrel had been cut at some time during its lifetime). It was probably sold/traded by the Indian who grabbed it some time shortly thereafter because Indians who were caught with US Army martial guns were NOT treated very kindly by their captors...
:eek::eek::eek:

To me, it's almost chilling to hold such a piece of history in your hands.

Thanks for sharing Rick!

What OTHER nice guns are you disposing of?
Any nice/old 1911's to be had?????
 
Custer Colt

I'm an old newbie on this forum. I found all this information to be fascinating. A lot of research has gone into all this, I can see. The fact that old guns were used and reused till there wasn't hardly anything left might be a lesson in frugality we could use today.
 

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