Custom 1903 Springfield

[HOUSTON RICK]

The 1903 is a classic, like the Mauser and SMLE, I like Milsurps, but the cost and space made me settle on a Mosin-Nagant, Ishapore and Remington 700 for centerfire bolt action rifles. Thank you for posting.

 

[Faulkner]

Very nice rifle.

Regarding the magazine cutoff, funny how they went from the M1903 with the antiquated magazine cutoff "to save ammo" to the M1 rifle that could not be easily topped off.

 

[AJ]

Someone who knew what they were doing made that stock. Yeah, it deserves a better scope than that Tasco.

If the Tasco scope dates to the purchase of the rifle it was "Made In Japan". Those Japanese Tasco's are great scopes. Have had many over the years. Usually I used 8-32X scopes, still have a couple of 36X50's for target shooting.

 

[GypsmJim]

I love that rifle. It pisses me off some milsurp nerd could say its “Bubbafied”. Its a work of art to me. Congrats.

That sentiment possibly has some merit today, since the availability of unmolested specimens has dwindled. But, back in the 1950's and '60's, they were a dime a dozen. Also, that was long before everything became "collectible".

What bothers me, though, is that one of the milsurp web sites won't even allow a poster to "Talk" about "sporterizing", even if the gun in question was modified 60 years ago.

 

[AJ]

That sentiment possibly has some merit today, since the availability of unmolested specimens has dwindled. But, back in the 1950's and '60's, they were a dime a dozen. Also, that was long before everything became "collectible".

What bothers me, though, is that one of the milsurp web sites won't even allow a poster to "Talk" about "sporterizing", even if the gun in question was modified 60 years ago.

That is why the "milsurps" are as pricey as they are, everybody bubba'd them. Some into true custom works of the gunsmith's art and some into wrecks!

 

[erikpolcrack]

One oft-repeated story I heard about Springfield and M1917 rifle blow-ups was post-WWI occupation-duty soldiers fooling around on ranges with US and captured German weapons accidentally chambering and shooting 8mm Mauser rounds in the US rifles.

 

[AJ]

One oft-repeated story I heard about Springfield and M1917 rifle blow-ups was post-WWI occupation-duty soldiers fooling around on ranges with US and captured German weapons accidentally chambering and shooting 8mm Mauser rounds in the US rifles.

Never heard that, but stupidity does lead to mistakes.......hopefully they learned something.

 

[Abbynormal]

I always wanted a 20's or 30's "03 with a C style stock and ladder sights.
That has always been my dream 30-06

 

[Rotorhead1026]

One oft-repeated story I heard about Springfield and M1917 rifle blow-ups was post-WWI occupation-duty soldiers fooling around on ranges with US and captured German weapons accidentally chambering and shooting 8mm Mauser rounds in the US rifles.

That happened in combat situations, too. There was also a bad lot of 30-06 brass (the rimless end was unsupported in the M1903).

And, no, I wasn’t present for any of this.

 

[Valmet]

One oft-repeated story I heard about Springfield and M1917 rifle blow-ups was post-WWI occupation-duty soldiers fooling around on ranges with US and captured German weapons accidentally chambering and shooting 8mm Mauser rounds in the US rifles.

It’s an oft-repeated story about the 03s but not one I’ve ever heard about the 1917s…

 

[Muley Gil]

It’s an oft-repeated story about the 03s but not one I’ve ever heard about the 1917s…

A few years back, there was a company that was building custom rifles chambered in elephant gun cartridges. They used surplus 1917 actions.

 

[AJ]

A few years back, there was a company that was building custom rifles chambered in elephant gun cartridges. They used surplus 1917 actions.

Should have used Arisakas, the action is stronger. Model 30 Remingtons were nothing more that the 1917 with the ears shaved off.

 

[Valmet]

A few years back, there was a company that was building custom rifles chambered in elephant gun cartridges. They used surplus 1917 actions.

You’re thinking of Art Alphin and the now defunct A-Square Company. Their Hannibal rifle utilized the 1917 action in all kinds of elephant bashing calibers. He developed the .577 Tyrannosaur and made a handful of those before the company was sold off.

 

[smoothshooter]

The large tab on the left rear of the receiver is not a safety. It is the magazine cut-off lever. When the ON is showing, the magazine functions normally. When it is turned down and the OFF is showing, the magazine is "cut-off", essentially making the rifle a single shot. This was a foolish early-last-century conceit by ordnance officers, hoping it would save ammo if soldiers saved the magazine load for emergencies. The OFF position will keep the bolt from going back far enough to pick up a cartridge from the magazine. The Springfield will function fine as a single-shot because the extractor is beveled and sprung so that it will snap over the rim of a loose cartridge placed in the receiver. Most Mauser-type rifles will not do this reliably. The cartridges must feed from the magazine. As far as most soldiers were concerned, the cut-off did have some value. In the OFF position, the follower of an empty rifle would not pop up and lock open the bolt when performing Inspection Arms. Original military followers had an up-angled rear to lock open the bolt as a positive reminder to soldiers in combat that is was time to grab another stripper-clip and reload. Another way of handling the problem while in garrison was to push a quarter down flat into the magazine and slide it back far enough to keep the follower out of the way.

I don’t see how there would be room for a quarter would lie flat in the magazine well.
As for the magazine cut-off, I can see where it would have some practical application in combat.

 

[Muley Gil]

You’re thinking of Art Alphin and the now defunct A-Square Company. Their Hannibal rifle utilized the 1917 action in all kinds of elephant bashing calibers. He developed the .577 Tyrannosaur and made a handful of those before the company was sold off.

I was thinking A-Square, but was too lazy to do the research.

The safety on the 1917 is much better than the Jap rifles, IMNSHO.

 

[AJ]

The safety on the 1917 is much better than the Jap rifles, IMNSHO.

Phillip Sharpe was involved in testing the military rifles for strength during WW II. They kept filling the cases for each military weapon with powder until the action let go. The Arisaka never blew up, it stripped the barrel out of the receiver at about 100,000 pounds of chamber pressure. It is in his book on reloading.

 

[bgrafsr]

I have an 03A3 that I bought from a fellow club member. It has an adjustable Lyman rear sight, and my Cousin and I made a Marine Corp style NM front sight at his machine shop.
I removed the stamped metal parts and replaced them with the 03 machined parts, installed a nickle steel bolt, and put the action in a "C" type stock.
The barrel's bore was pretty bad, so I bought a new barrel, which happened to be a 2 groove style. i had it installed and the gun is very accurate, especially with armor piercing ammo.
It was manufactured by Smith Corona.

 

[2152hq]

True, but there is a lot more to that story. Hatcher's Notebook discusses it fairly thoroughly. The Army conclusively documented that blowups were not the result of improper heat treatment during manufacture. In fact, the early low SN 1903s were never pulled from service by the Army. So any 1903 is OK. But later manufactured 1903s did use different alloys and heat treatment. I have an earlier 1903 (6666xx) that I have fired extensively without incident. It is still in its original military configuration.

The Army Ord pulled the Low# 03 from service.
It's the USMC that never gave up their Low# Springfields.

Those low# 03's that were pulled and turned around through Arsenal rebuild were supposed to get a High# recv'r to replace the Low# unit.
That didn't always happen with rifles sent to storage especially.

The back and forth about the safety of the Low# reveivers (and their Bolts) will never be over I suspect.

It's kind of like the Damascus BBl arguement over their safety in shooting them.

There are plenty of arguement points on both sides and everyone is well dug in. There they stay and lob their info points back and forth.

But just like the Damascus bbl issue, there is likely a story behind each one that given it up. There are just too many variables that can and have to be considered and we usually only have part of the story with each incident.
3rd person or here-say evidence abounds.

I personally do not like the Glass Hard nature or the early L# 03's when that hardness extends deep into the surface..and sometimes nearly all the wy through some of the parts of the recv'r.
Yes it's case hardened and that's what it should be as far as a hardened surface. But not that deep.

Those early actions can and do break easily sometimes. Not every single one of them of course. But a sufficient number of them have and still do.
A rifle action should not shatter like an old gas station Coke machine bottle
when it's reached it's limit(s).
That it stretches, bulges, perhaps cracks and breaks rails, splits the front ring in extreme instanses would be expected.
But not shatter into handfulls of small fragments.

The 'new' Double Heat Treat was nothing more than a second step that was an Annealing of the Case Hardened recvr. This to draw it back from it's extreme hardness to a lesser state to avoid that brittle nature.
Nothing fancy

Any Low# sporter 03 that I can cut w/a file I trust more than one of the glass hard ones. It's not going the shatter.
Loads for the 30-06 were only around 40 to 42K psi back then as well.
The 30-06 is now loaded to around 55K and more in OTC ammo. Way too much for these old rifles (inclu the Winch 95 in 30-06)

Sedgley bought as scrap metal from the US Govt a train car(s) load of 03 Low# parts incl recv'rs. A few cents / lbs.
With that they built 03 sporters for many years. Those L# receivers they advertised that they 'Re-Hea treated' them for safety.
What they did was placed the stripped recv'r on gas stove burners untll they turned 'blue'. Then let them cool.
That will anneal them!
When rebarreling the recv'rs (they used Sporter bbl's they bought from Winchester) and then proof firing the assembly, sometimes the bolt would set back in the recv'r.
The bbl would be removed and turned back 1/2 turn. Then the chamber recut and headspaced again.
Those rifles are easy to spot by removing the bolt from the rifle and taking a look at the face of the breech/bbl.
If you see 2 extractor slot cuts 3 & 9 oclock.. you know the bbl was set back at fitting.

I've never heard of one of the Sedgleys going to pieces.
I have seen a handful of other Low# rifles that have cracked, or otherwise shattered to pieces. A couple just crack into a couple pieces when put in a bench vise for work.

Mausers are case hardened low carbon steel as well. Occasionaly one cracks through the stripper clip cut on the left wall. They can be too soft and bolts set back. But I've never seen the problem of excessively hardened steel to the point where brittle nature is an issue that they may shatter.

It's odd that the Krag was made of the same steel by the same people and the same Single Heat Treatment case hardening at Springfield and they didn't suffer any problems of shattering. They are very hard as well.
They do have an issue to watch for with a crack developing on the locking lug on the bolt though. What that is related to (HT, design,,or both) I do not know.


Something was going on for sure. We will probably never know the entire story.

I treat my Sedgley Sporter to cast bullets and 10gr of RedDot. Even that some people are horrified over.
They don't stick around when I shoot 7625 loads in Damascus shotguns either.

A Nickel Steel High# sporter gets most of the shooting though.