Custom Holster customer poll

[PersonalSecurity]

I run a small custom kydex holster business. After reading a recent thread about a company giving 4 month lead times and delivering sometimes up to a year later, I have a couple questions to help make my customers' experience better.

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?

2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I may post more. Any little bit to help make the experience better is a big win in my book, so your time to answer means the world to me.

Steve

 

[Kanewpadle]

1. Stop taking orders after a 2 month back log.
2. Charge my card just before you ship.

The problem seems as though some holster makers get themselves into trouble by getting too far behind and running the credit cards immediately.

It also seems as though the money generated from new orders are spent on materials and labor for over due orders.

 

[tom turner]

Once a small businessman starts spending checks received for future work to pay for current expenses it is a slippery, dangerous, downhill slope.

If you can do it, stay lean and build your reputation by exceeding your promises and you'll have all the business you can handle and you and your customers will remain happy.

There's an old saying I teach in business . . .

"Always Promise LESS Than You Can Deliver; and then Deliver MORE Than You Promised" and you'll make customers for life!

If you say 4-6 weeks, the customers only hear "four," then start calling after three to see if you are running ahead of time. Pretty soon you are spending half your time on the phone and people are canceling after 4 1/2. It's better to say 9-11 weeks and amaze 'em between 6 and 8!!! Less ulcers too!!!

Good luck!

Tom

 

[Kanewpadle]

Take a look at Milt Sparks website and see how they do business. They are reknowned for doing things right.

Milt Sparks Holsters

Never owned one of their holsters and never will. Too expensive for me. Yes, their holsters are among the best. But I can find custom holsters that are just as well made for much less.

There's a lot of competition out there but if you do things right, you will have more customers than you think.

 

[8th SPS USAF]

info

I have bought many Milt Sparks holsters in the past when it took about

4/6 weeks. I will never order a holster that takes more than 6 weeks.

If I want to use it for carry, I want it now or I would not have ordered it.

For matches/training -not needed that fast. Charge the card when the

goes out the door, but tell your customers that upfront. Also them

with any problems, color of holsters did not come in, be delayed. Then

they can decide to keep the order or not. Good luck

8th

 

[1LuvGuns]

I run a small custom kydex holster business. After reading a recent thread about a company giving 4 month lead times and delivering sometimes up to a year later, I have a couple questions to help make my customers' experience better.

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?

2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I may post more. Any little bit to help make the experience better is a big win in my book, so your time to answer means the world to me.

Steve

1. Stop taking orders
2. 2 months
3. Since I tend to use a debit/credit card I prefer to pay when I order, that way I don't get a "surprise" later on. Basically when I order I have the funds to cover the purchase right then.

 

[PersonalSecurity]

Once a small businessman starts spending checks received for future work to pay for current expenses it is a slippery, dangerous, downhill slope.

If you can do it, stay lean and build your reputation by exceeding your promises and you'll have all the business you can handle and you and your customers will remain happy.

There's an old saying I teach in business . . .

"Always Promise LESS Than You Can Deliver; and then Deliver MORE Than You Promised" and you'll make customers for life!

If you say 4-6 weeks, the customers only hear "four," then start calling after three to see if you are running ahead of time. Pretty soon you are spending half your time on the phone and people are canceling after 4 1/2. It's better to say 9-11 weeks and amaze 'em between 6 and 8!!! Less ulcers too!!!

Good luck!

Tom

Tom,

I completely agree with the "promise less, deliver more" approach. I've got a 2-4 week lead time posted, but if I have the blue guns in stock, they usually ship after about 5 days. But shhh! Don't tell anyone!

I am going to go through the list of models and make note which ones are blue guns ordered, to help people know which end of the lead time spectrum they are on. Since starting to go online, my lead times have been pushed back by slow shipping materials and blue guns, which pushes me back. But I like to stay under even the low end of the lead time spectrum when able to.

It looks like 2 months is the point to stop taking orders. I actually agree with this number a lot, especially in kydex. Leather may present a different story because it can be weather dependant (from what I hear), but if I am 2 months behind on kydex - which is done when its done - then it would be a good time to close the paypal down.

I have another question, but I'll put it as a seperate post and bold it so it doesn't become hidden in this long message, but the intro to it is here:

Even with the small amount of responses here, we had some people wanting immediate charge of the card (for checkbook balancing issues often) and others who think it should charge before it ships. I do offer both - one is by email invoice which isn't required to be paid until the order is ready to ship and the other is the shopping cart / pay now on the site. My question is......

 

[PersonalSecurity]

My question is......

Should I put a disclaimer on the order pages and home page to let customers know that the email invoice is necessary to not be charged immediately and the paypal shopping cart will charge now?

Or would you know that this is the way it works? I believe I have it listed somewhere on my site, but I could probably post it in more areas.

 

[oldman45]

A couple months ago I ordered a custom made leather holster. While I have a large amount of holsters accumulated over the years, this custom holster fits better and is more comfortable than any holster I have owned.

I ordered it on a Tuesday by phone, giving the gun type, the finish I wanted and the angle I wanted. I received it 11 days later by first class mail. When I want another, I will order it from the same craftsman.

I refuse to wait four weeks. If I need it now, I need it now. If a person takes a month to make me something, then that person needs to hire more employees.

Why would one want to pay for something they will not get for weeks? Pay for it when it is shipped. I do not pay for a car when I order one. I do not pay for a house as it is being built.

 

[PersonalSecurity]

A couple months ago I ordered a custom made leather holster. While I have a large amount of holsters accumulated over the years, this custom holster fits better and is more comfortable than any holster I have owned.

I ordered it on a Tuesday by phone, giving the gun type, the finish I wanted and the angle I wanted. I received it 11 days later by first class mail. When I want another, I will order it from the same craftsman.

I refuse to wait four weeks. If I need it now, I need it now. If a person takes a month to make me something, then that person needs to hire more employees.

Why would one want to pay for something they will not get for weeks? Pay for it when it is shipped. I do not pay for a car when I order one. I do not pay for a house as it is being built.

I can agree with this. Just understand that the picture is often much bigger. My lead times are very low, but so are my orders compared to some larger companies.

I have recently started training employees. I start them with easy things like washing the sheets to get sanding dust off them. By the time I work them up to making belt loops and small BIC lighter or AA battery carriers, I end up losing them. I can't count how much material I have wasted trying to train employees.

The bottom line is that profit margins for many holster makers are small. Most have day jobs and do this as a "hobby". Its hard to find someone who will care enough to take the time to put 110% effort into a product that isn't their own at the end of the day. Try doing this without paying them large salaries, and its very difficult to reduce lead times.

I would love nothing more than to have a 2 day lead time, but I would rather a 2 month lead time producing a quality piece of gear made by myself then just pump out sketchy equipment to get the money quicker. I'm sure other custom companies are in a similar situation.

Just keep in mind "custom" is very different than production. We don't have machines that pump out the gear. Our employees don't press a button - they hand sand every corner with 80 grit paper all the way to 2000grit paper increasing by 100 grit inbetween - and then finish it with 4 different polishing materials. These processes take time and skilled labor.

I also understand some people can't wait months for gear, and thats why I work many late nights trying to meet orders within a week. But keep in mind anytime you see a custom shop listing long lead times that it is for your good and not the good of the company. As a business owner, being able to get everyone their order immediately would be a dream come true.

On that note, this is the area that seperates the business men who are talented craftsmen and the craftsmen only. There are many steps we take to speed things up, but I can speak for myself that I will personally never speed things up at the expense of the product's quality.

Again, just trying to give you some insight to the other end of lead times. The lead times may be too long for some people, but the fact that people choose to patiently wait shows they understand the process to some degree.

There are a lot of holster companies and many with low lead times. The custom route isn't for everyone, but I like to think "good things come to those who wait". And the payment up front is good for those who don't want a "suprise" charge on their debit/credit card a few weeks down the road. This could potentially lead to overdraft charges and such. This is a big reason why I offer both immediate and delayed payment.

Just my $0.02 as a small business owner.

Steve

 

[oldman45]

I can agree with this. Just understand that the picture is often much bigger. My lead times are very low, but so are my orders compared to some larger companies.

The bottom line is that profit margins for many holster makers are small. http://www.psholsters.com

I understand but I also know of experiences of friends and myself.

Some time ago, I ordered a holster from a well known company. They said two weeks to ship when I ordered. Four months later and I still did not have it but I had paid for it. A quick call to the business did little to get the holster.

Then I read a gun mag that spoke praises of the business. The mag also mentioned the place shut down for two weeks annual vacation. Then the owners began having problems with their current building and stopped operation until they found a suitable building. Eventually they restarted and caught up with their work. I got my holster about 6 months later.

Many businesses take in more orders than they can promptly fill. The businesses also will use the money they take in to finance other things.

I do not care how long it takes to get something if I am told up front the real time frame. I do care about quality, craftsmanship and durability.

 

[rondo]

I don't have a credit card, use a debit card instead. For lots of reasons the money "available" via the card is kept to a minimum. This has served me well, except when purchasing holsters that have an unknown to me charge date. I really prefer paying up front. The main reason I worry about the wait time is to make sure enough dough is available to the maker. If I can pay up front, I can relax and forget about it.

 

[Marine24]

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?

2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Neither. Create a window when orders are taken that will allow them to hit the advertised delivery time. Having a predictable lead time and working with a Company that can hit that lead time is critical for me.

NA. If you stop taking orders, folks will likely go somewhere else.

Charge when the item ships no matter the lead time.

As noted previously, the process Milt Sparks uses is one of the best I've seen. Yes it is a pain to have to wait four to six months to get the holster, but the expectation is set up front so no surprises.

 

[PersonalSecurity]

I understand but I also know of experiences of friends and myself.

Some time ago, I ordered a holster from a well known company. They said two weeks to ship when I ordered. Four months later and I still did not have it but I had paid for it. A quick call to the business did little to get the holster.

Then I read a gun mag that spoke praises of the business. The mag also mentioned the place shut down for two weeks annual vacation. Then the owners began having problems with their current building and stopped operation until they found a suitable building. Eventually they restarted and caught up with their work. I got my holster about 6 months later.

Many businesses take in more orders than they can promptly fill. The businesses also will use the money they take in to finance other things.

I do not care how long it takes to get something if I am told up front the real time frame. I do care about quality, craftsmanship and durability.

Wow. I've heard some terrible stories involving lead times (and experienced one myself years ago), but that takes the cake. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

They should send you a letter thanking you for keeping the name of the company confidential. I would want to scream it from a mountain top after that!

I strongly agree about not touching money that isn't "yours". I haven't set up PayPal for direct deposit, that way any refunds, cancellations, etc. will have the money right there.

I'm dealing with blue gun distributors right now that promise an item is in stock and will ship that day, only to call a week later and it still hasn't shipped. Not meeting a deadline is one of the worst mistakes a company can make. In other branches of business, it is completely unacceptable.

Stevehttp://www.psholsters.com

 

[38-44HD45]

I run a small custom kydex holster business. After reading a recent thread about a company giving 4 month lead times and delivering sometimes up to a year later, I have a couple questions to help make my customers' experience better.

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?


2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I may post more. Any little bit to help make the experience better is a big win in my book, so your time to answer means the world to me.

Steve

1. Stop taking orders
2. 8-10 weeks
3. Charge on shipment

 

[george minze]

The age old problem !!!Look at the situation with Lawman holsters...Horrible no matter how good they are. the quality has been out shined by Very bad service and time of delivery. There are some very talented new guys out there that are finding out the hard way that custom means delays. You ether don't have enough business or you have more than you can reasonably handle...Tough spot to be in ether way. Lobo seems to have kept things very well handled but as he gets more and more popular he will find it a hard task I'm afraid. I'm old enough to remember the Paris Theadora experience...Tons of talent with holsters and the famed but hard to get ASP. I think he almost became the Attorney General of NY unfavored caller do to non shipped orders and pre-payment...Talent is good but you must have some business savvy also..IMHO

 

[cshoff]

I run a small custom kydex holster business. After reading a recent thread about a company giving 4 month lead times and delivering sometimes up to a year later, I have a couple questions to help make my customers' experience better.

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?

2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I may post more. Any little bit to help make the experience better is a big win in my book, so your time to answer means the world to me.

Steve

1. Stop taking orders. IMO, you owe it to the customers who already have their orders in to focus solely on getting their product out the door. Time spent dealing with new incoming orders could be better spent on satisfying existing orders.

2. I think 2 months is fair. If your work is backed up more than 2 months, you probably need to change your process in some way or another (streamline the production process somehow, hire more employees, dedicate more hours to production, etc).

3. I think offering the customer a choice is a wonderful idea.

 

[MotorCityGun]

I run a small custom kydex holster business. After reading a recent thread about a company giving 4 month lead times and delivering sometimes up to a year later, I have a couple questions to help make my customers' experience better.

1. Would you prefer a company keep increasing lead times or stop taking orders?

2. What would be the amount of lead time that one would like to see a company stop taking orders?

3. Do you prefer to have your credit card charged now or when the item ships if lead times are under a month? I've heard proponents of both ways and currenly offer both options, but more feedback would be great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I may post more. Any little bit to help make the experience better is a big win in my book, so your time to answer means the world to me.

Steve

As a business/turnaround consultant, I work with many companies, large and small, that have similar problems, as it affects their lead times, quality and throughput. There is no one answer or cookie cutter approach to their issues, however, in many incidences the root cause(s) of their problems are very similar or the same.

Here is my .02 worth of advice; as you approach that critical mass of your business and operations, you will need to:
1. Look at/Study every aspect/process of your operations, from order taking to purchasing to "manufacturing" to packaging to shipment to accounts recievable.
2. Convert and measure as much of these activities into units of time, including your materials. In other words, every piece of raw material or work in process (WIP) can be converted into a unit of time.
3. Measure how much time it takes to perform each operation, i.e. the ACTUAL ("value added") time that is required to take an order, sand, drill, heat, etc. Any time or materials that is used/consumed, other than to transform the raw material into final product or orders into dollars, such as, moving, multiple handling, picking up, storing, over producing, rework, waiting, etc. is considered "waste", and can never be salvaged.
4. Your "lead time" will be a compilation of "wasted" time plus "value added" time. The "wasted" time invariably will ALWAYS exceed the "value added" time. The "ideal state" or goal(s) will be to maintain the lead time to closely match the VA time, with the least amount of "waste".

As the business matures, this becomes an ever increasingly difficult task, which why they hire guys like me to re-calibrate our clients' operations, business processes and legacy behaviors.

MCG