Cylinder Ring Starting

[Jim R]

I just bought 3 unfired Stainless Steel S&W Revolvers from a buddy. They have never been fired but he has handled them a lot and they all have very faint rings on the cylinder between the lock up points.

Is there anything I can do to prevent these from getting worse?

Thanks in advance for any help

Jim

 

[Alk8944]

Leave the gun in it's box and don't handle/shoot it. The turn ring is inherent to the mechanical design of S&W lockwork.

 

[dlbx2]

Jim, I have had the same issue, several times. MAAS fine metal polish will get it out. It may take several applications, but it will remove the ring on a stainless, that is, if it is just a barely visible ring, as you said, from handling. The only problem is that if you don't polish the rest of the gun as well, you will end up with what looks like a stainless revolver with a nickel cylinder. MAAS is only one of several metal polishes that you can buy, but it is made for polishing fine metals like expensive silverware, and the abrasive, that all polishes have otherwise they wouldn't work, that MAAS contains is very fine. A Miracle Cloth will also work, but I prefer the results I get with MAAS. I hope that this has helped. I am sure that other members have their own ways of dealing with this, this just happens to be mine.
DLB

 

[Dragon88]

A turn line is a sign of a properly functioning S&W revolver. As mentioned, if you don't want a turn line, zip tie the hammer closed, put the gun in a box, and never fire it or work the action.

Not much fun in that is there?

 

[chief38]

That's just the way S&W's are designed. I have never seen one that won't develop a line in short order after being shot. ABSOLUTELY 100% Normal and will not harm your weapon. I would not polish it either since you will change the Factory finish, and the line will be back as soon as you pull the trigger a few times anyway (unless of course you are NEVER going to shoot it).

By the way, your gun WAS shot at the Factory for proof testing prior to being shipped to a distributor. It has also been cycled many times while being fitted and before being shot to make sure the cylinder revolves properly, times correctly and does not bind anywhere. Normal procedure and since the cylinder bolt is brand new and still has sharp contours, it will cut the cylinder a bit more when new. Once the cylinder bolt smooths out, the line cutting will ease.

Chief38

 

[NotObvious]

Shoot it!!!

I know of folks who have brought in their blue model 19-3 revolvers to get the cylinder stop tricked out.

It will only delay the inevitable ring that develops.

Having the cylinder refinished is not that expensive... under $100 if its that much of an issue.

 

[2152hq]

In a properly timed revolver, the locking bolt is supposed to drop into the tapered entry cut leading up to the locking cut out itself.
In theory, the bolt should never drop onto the cylinder surface outside of the tapered cut and therefore no cylinder line should ever show up.

In reality what happens even in a properly timed revolver is that every time the cylinder is unlatched and opened and then closed again,,the bolt is bearing upwards on the cylinder surface somewhere randomly in between locking cutouts.

Then we turn the cylinder to the next cut out,,,'click',, the bolt drops into place. But that drag of the bolt each and every time at random spots around the cylinder to bring it to a locked position puts the line into it.

Adding to it would be a revolver whose bolt drops before the tapered entry cut and wears a portion of the ring onto the cylinder each time it's cycled. Many revolvers do this right from the factory unfortunetly.

Clean it up (it's stainless and can be done easily), then tie the action if you don't want it to ever appear again.

A high polished bolt surface with edges slightly broken will avoid much of the wear. Be sure to maintain all the proper angles and dimentions of the bolt when polishing. A slightly lighter bolt return spring puts less pressure against the cylinder too, though it would not be something to do in a gun to be used for self defense.

Proper timeing and careful handling (open and close to line up the bolt) can avoid the cylinder ring.

 

[dfariswheel]

"In a properly timed revolver, the locking bolt is supposed to drop into the tapered entry cut leading up to the locking cut out itself.
In theory, the bolt should never drop onto the cylinder surface outside of the tapered cut and therefore no cylinder line should ever show up."

Sorry, but that's only valid for the old Colt action as used on the Python, Detective Special etc.
Look at a Colt cylinder and you'll notice the ramps or leades in front of the locking notches are very long. That's so the bolt can drop onto the ramp and still have enough time to drop into the locking notch.

Look at a S&W cylinder. The ramps are extremely short.
If you timed a S&W to drop into ramps that short, the gun would have problems with "cylinder throw by".
That's a situation where the locking bolt doesn't have enough time to drop into the locking notch and the cylinder bypasses it. That means the cylinder rotate too far.
This allows firing with the cylinder unlocked and off center primer hits.

Timing in the old style Colt action is absolutely critical. The locking bolt MUST drop into about the middle third of the ramp or leade in front of the locking notch.
Any later and you get cylinder throw by.

The S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson, and later Colt's like the Mark III through Anaconda are specifically designed to drop the bolt back on the cylinder and ride it for most of the cylinder's rotation.
This is why they all quickly develop the line on the cylinder.

The disadvantage of the old Colt design is the action has to be entirely hand fitted to work properly, and that costs more money because of the hand labor to fit and adjust it.

The advantage of the S&W and other designs is, there's almost no chance of cylinder throw by, and the action doesn't require much in the way of fitting or adjusting to work.
The disadvantage is the line on the cylinder, which people absolutely refuse to accept is part of the way the action was designed to work.

In short, if the S&W is supposed to drop the locking bolt in the extremely short ramp in front of the cylinder, every S&W revolver that's left the factory in the last 100 years has been defective.

 

[Magnumdood]

Nice synopsis

dfariswheel,

Nice synopsis of the "dreaded cylinder line" and why it's there…to stay.

 

[Jack Flash]

A while back, someone posted a complicated procedure for getting the cylinder opened and closed without ever having the locking bolt touch the cylinder except in the locking notches. He was pretty proud of his technique, IIRC.

My thought was, "Is he talking about unfired collector guns only, or does he go through this rigamarole when he shoots them?" If the latter, he might as well buy a single shot pistol.

 

[chief38]

To me the cylinder line is just a part of a S&W's make-up. I never looked at it as a "defect" or a "detraction", just a normal part of the gun. I could sort of understand trying to keep the cyl. line off a pristine "Safe Queen" that was never intended to be fired, but a gun that is a self defense weapon, or a target or plinking gun, I can't understand or relate to why someone would get bent out of shape or concerned about it. They are already "marked" right out of the box straight from the Factory (testing, adjusting and proofing). And just so you know..............I AM A PICKY, PERFECTIONIST!

Chief38

 

[SAJohn]

There is a way to avoid 'ring around the cylinder' but it is a bit a pain. The revolver must always be fired single action. Draw back the hammer until the cylinder latch drops, then rotate the cylinder manually until it is almost to the next chamber index, then finish cocking.

John

 

[TSQUARED]

I just bought 3 unfired Stainless Steel S&W Revolvers from a buddy. They have never been fired but he has handled them a lot and they all have very faint rings on the cylinder between the lock up points.

Is there anything I can do to prevent these from getting worse?

Thanks in advance for any help

Jim

Leave the gun in the box and lock it up in the safe. The ring on the cylinder is normal wear. Remeber all mechanical devices wear with time when used just like cars.

 

[fivetwo]

ring around the cylinder

the thing that gets me about the cylinder ring, is the website sellers who describe their revolvers as "mint" or "new in box" or "as new in box" but the picture clearly shows the cylinder drag line.
I would never pay a "mint" price for a revolver that had a drag line.
I know one of the members said some new smith and wessons might leave the factory with a drag line, so it would be interesting to see how many members would buy a "mint" revolver from smith and Wesson that was sporting a drag line.
I was interested in buying a factory engraved revolver on an auction website. the engraving was beautiful, it had a jinks letter and the seller described it a "mint" and "unfired,"
but there was a very visible drag line on the cylinder. I don't know if any seller should describe their product that way, if it sports a cylinder drag line.
I'm sure that if I had my choice of buying a factory engraved revolver without a drag line, or an identical one with a drag line, and both are being offered at the same price, my choice would be the former.

 

[chief38]

When metal drags on metal there is always going to be a wear line. Before Revolvers ship they need to be tested and adjusted sometimes, as well as being test fired - hence the drag line. The drag line is considered a normal situation even on a brand new gun.

Even brand new Auto Loaders have wear marks between the slide and frame. They can't be adjusted and test fired without that happening.

Tires that come on a new car from the dealership are really used tires since they have been mounted and driven at least a mile or so. The engine has also been tested and driven (so parts are marked and scored) - so that would be considered used even on a new car if we are to take that tact. Just saying........

 

[G.T. Smith]

Personally, I like the looks of the drag line almost as much as the burnt discolorations around the front of the chambers. Not build up but the dark circles. They match my eyes and look like the gun has been fired and that the user has probably shot it enough to be fairly good with it. I also like the normal holster wear that is happening to my carry guns. But I am not in any way saying that I don't take pride in the appearance of my firearms. I bought a brand new Colt Government a few months ago and it was so pretty, blued with rosewood grips and all. I saw a picture of Clyde Barrow's 1911 and thought it looked much better.
I hope it all works out for you. I polished the turn line off of my 65 one time with a dremmel tool and jeweler's rouge. It was back after a short time.
peace,
gordon

 

[Nemo288]

As has been mentioned, lightly stoning/buffing the cylinder stop may reduce the advancement of the drag line
but is usually part of an action job to improve the smoothness of the DA trigger pull.
I have noticed the titanium cylinder I have is so hard it does not show much, if any, drag line.
All my other revolvers are stainless and have a nice cylinder line.
The bead blast finish shows it the most (and it's the one with a polished cylinder stop).

===
Nemo

 

[Muss Muggins]

I just bought 3 unfired Stainless Steel S&W Revolvers from a buddy. They have never been fired but he has handled them a lot and they all have very faint rings on the cylinder between the lock up points.

Is there anything I can do to prevent these from getting worse?

Thanks in advance for any help

Jim

Stop turning the cylinder.

 

[Hapworth]

the thing that gets me about the cylinder ring, is the website sellers who describe their revolvers as "mint" or "new in box" or "as new in box" but the picture clearly shows the cylinder drag line.
I would never pay a "mint" price for a revolver that had a drag line.
I know one of the members said some new smith and wessons might leave the factory with a drag line, so it would be interesting to see how many members would buy a "mint" revolver from smith and Wesson that was sporting a drag line.
I was interested in buying a factory engraved revolver on an auction website. the engraving was beautiful, it had a jinks letter and the seller described it a "mint" and "unfired,"
but there was a very visible drag line on the cylinder. I don't know if any seller should describe their product that way, if it sports a cylinder drag line.
I'm sure that if I had my choice of buying a factory engraved revolver without a drag line, or an identical one with a drag line, and both are being offered at the same price, my choice would be the former.

Find yourself a "mint" revolver with zero evidence of a turn line and you've likely put collector-level dollars down on an undeclared refinish.

chief38 has this one nailed: faint turn lines begin at the factory, and thems the breaks...

 

[Nightowl]

A lot has been said about turn lines and possibly preventing them here, and some have implied that a properly time revolver should drop the cylinder stop in the approach cut into the stop notch. Perhaps some folks have never removed the sideplate and watched the action in motion. When the trigger is pulled, the trigger hook pulls down on the slot in the cylinder stop, which pulls the ball out of the cylinder stop notch as the hand, attached to the trigger begins rotating the trigger. The ball of the cylinder stop must depress out of the cylinder before the hand engages and rotates the cylinder, if not the cylinder is bound on the ball of the cylinder stop and will not rotate. As the cylinder rotates, the trigger continues to depress the cylinder stop until it snaps back into position. The ball of the cylinder stop cannot depress below the bottom of the cylinder stop frame cut, or it can hang up and not snap back into position. Therefore, there is only a short window allowed for this operation. On my best timed revolvers, the cylinder will only turn about a third, or so, of the distance from chamber to chamber. Frankly, I think it is extremely unlikely to be able to time a Smith to have the cylinder stop to snap back into position into the cylinder stop approaches. Thus, in a properly functioning gun, you will develop a turn line. Now, maybe it can be mitigated by breaking the leading edge of the cylinder stop, and polishing, lightly please, do not remove metal, the cylinder stop ball. But, if you use the gun, it will develop a turn line.
It is just a result of having a finely tuned Smith, shoot it and accept it for what it is.

 

[murphydog]

Good information above, but I think Jim R got his answer about 3 years ago .