Cylinder sticks on 1918 New Cent Triple Lock .44 Spl

[Grandpa Si]

I recently inherited a S&W New Century Triple Lock revolver in .44 Spl made in 1918. It shoots great with one exception. There is a small raised ridge in the metal next to where the firing pin comes through the frame. That ridge hits the base of the cartridge case as the cylinder rotates. Sometimes it won't allow the cylinder to rotate. I don't know if this is an ammo problem (base of the cartridge case is thicker than they used to be) or a revolver frame problem (the raised ridge is mfg defect or an obsolete feature and needs to be ground off). I have not yet tried multiple types of ammo to see if a different make of ammo allows the cylinder to turn.
Any ideas or seen this before?

 

[Muley Gil]

The firing pin comes through the firing pin bushing. It sounds like it has been heavily dry fired.

 

[DCWilson]

I think Gil is saying that the firing pin bushing is displaced forward some small amount, which makes sense to me. If it can be pressed or tapped back to the point where it is flush with the recoil shield, that should solve your problem. If it can't be pushed back, it may need to be removed and filed to the proper dimension before it is reinstalled. Or maybe it just needs to be replaced.

Or maybe I'm talking through my hat. I've never run into a problem firing pin bushing before (though I have seen pictures of some that were chipped), so I'm simply speculating on the fix.

 

[Grandpa Si]

Gil and David, thanks for your suggestions about my .44 Spl Triple Lock. It took me a while to get time to get to the range and take a closer look at your suggestions. The firing pin bushing was no problem, it was totally flush. Then I tried some more test firing. I noticed that the first few rounds went through fine, but the next rounds would not rotate. I finally took the unfired rounds out and took a close look. Turns out the recoil of firing the first few rounds caused the lead bullet in the next few rounds to unseat slightly from the crimping of the brass case. This let the bullet extend too far out to rotate into the barrel / firing pin position. I'm shocked since I was using Remington factory ammo. I guess I either need to start reloading my own or else find a better quality ammo. Any ammo suggestions?

 

[deadin]

Are you sure it is factory loads and not somebody else's reloads? If it is factory, it sounds like a Remington quality control problem. Not enough crimp.
You might drop them a line and ask them to check their crimp station on the production line. (Maybe they will even send you some fresh ammo..)

Or are they really old brass that has turned brittle and is cracking. I just shot some quite old .380 ACP (the 50 rd. box was store marked $5.72 ) and it split about 1 in 4.

 

[lebomm]

A burred firing pin bushing is quite common in an older revolver, and easy to fix. Remove the cylinder & yoke. Take a piece of round steel, longer than the barrel, that will slide easily down the bore. Grind & polish the end flat & square, slide it into the bore against the firing pin bushing, and mount the gun in a padded vise. Tap the muzzle end of the rod w/a light hammer while turning the rod with your fingers in the cyl. window. It won't take very many taps to mash the burr flat again. As always, beware of going too far and dishing the bushing. hth

Larry

 

[rburg]

When you suspect or even guess you have an ammo problem, the simple and best answer is to try another box of a different brand. If the problem seems to continue, you have a different problem. I've never heard of "bullet walk" on a full size heavy frame gun. Its a common problem with the new ultra light guns.

If you have a micrometer or caliper, measure the unfired cartridges. They all will be about the same length. Then shoot one round and take out the other 5. Measure them. See if they "grow" and how much per shot. You can take along a magic marker and actually write the measurements on the side of the brass.

My guess is another brand ammo will work pretty well.

I'm guessing your T/L wasn't made in 1918, only shipped that year. I think they were out of production by then.

 

[feralmerril]

I notice you have the rarer target model. Nice! Has it been reblued? It looks good. There could be a star stamp and date on the grip frame under the grips if it was sent back to the factory. Its a little hard to fully understand the problem but it doesnt sound serious.

 

[gwpercle]

Sweet triple lock. With those adjustable sights it don't get much better.

I think now would be a good time to look into reloading your own. The 44 spcl. just begs to be shot with cast bullets. And the 44 spcl. is a very easy round to learn reloading with. You can purchase already cast, lubed and sized bullets now . By placing a good crimp in the bullets crimp groove, your bullets will stay put

Also think how much more shooting you will be able to do for the same amount spent on factory ammo. I'm not going to say you will save money by reloading cause we don't...we just shoot a lot more.

Gary

And I think the best reason is it's fun. I enjoy the hobby a lot.

 

[Texas Star]

Remington ammo has gotten a bad rep for QC in recent years. I hope that bad crimp on the bullet is your problem. Just change ammo.

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome here to the forum.

Nice New Century "Triple Lock" .44. I love the target models. Wrong grips as you probably know but give a better purchase than the original service grips. They look like 1930 vintage from the back plates.

Definitely an ammo problem but I'm very surprised at factory ammo doing that. Never seen or heard of factory ammo pulling bullets under recoil in a full weight gun in 50 years. Did you actually buy the ammo new yourself or is it just packed in a factory box? Do the bullets (not the cartridges, just the bullets) match the description on the box? I could hand you a box of my reloads loaded in new brass and a box of factory and it would be hard to tell them apart.

 

[Grandpa Si]

Thanks for the note. I did measure the bullet creeping out of the case and the creep was clearly visible. After two shots, the remaining bullets had crept to the point where they blocked the cylinder rotation. Too little crimp pressure at the factory, I guess. I will try a new ammo manufacturer and hope that solves the problem.

You are correct about manufacture vs. ship dates. They quit making the triple lock in 1915, mine was shipped out of factory inventory on Jan 1, 1918 (must have been one of the last to ship).

 

[Grandpa Si]

It is the target model - my grandpa passed it along to me. It has not been reblued, just well tended. I cringe when I think of how we used to run around shooting it at jack rabbits as kids. I think it's purely an ammo problem, we'll see if I can find some made with a better crimp pressure.

 

[Grandpa Si]

I have a brother who is a reloader, he's done some .44s in the past, and has offered to reload a set for me with a better crimp. I'm betting that would solve the problem. I'll have to start by sitting alongside him - it's handy to have a friendly teacher.
I'm still surprised that factory ammo isn't reliable in its crimp pressure.

 

[glowe]

Another common problem with reloaded ammo is a primer that is not flush with the brass. If it is seated crooked or not seated deep enough, it will bind up the cylinder.

 

[Grandpa Si]

The ammo is a fresh purchase right out of the box, and the bullet types do match the description - so I believe it's a Remington problem. I'll test another manufacturer and see for sure.

I'm curious about your comment about the grips. I actually got an S&W Historian letter on the revolver, and it noted "This revolver was shipped with... checkered walnut grips." That plus the S&W seal inside the grips made me think the grips are original. I wonder if that was because it shipped from inventory in 1918 - and they had quit making them by 1915 - so maybe someone at the factory changed grips?

 

[Grandpa Si]

That was my original suspicion, but the primers are nice and flush (these are factory loads). The bullet creep out of the case was distinct and visible - so I'm pretty sure that somewhere at the factory the crimp pressure was insufficient.

 

[DGT]

Si, congratulations on your Triple Lock, they are great guns. I have a TL in 44 spl that is also a target model. Mine shipped in 1917.

I think what Hondo is saying is that the grips in your picture appear to be Magna grips. The description in your letter from Mr. Jinks of "checkered walnut grips" usually refers to what we call service style grips. I'm not even sure Magnas were available until later.

 

[deadin]

so maybe someone at the factory changed grips?

I doubt it unless the gun was at the factory in the 1930's.
Those are pre-war Magnums which weren't designed until the mid 30's.

BTW pre-war N frame magnas are quite valuable in themselves. I think clean ones are going in the several hundreds+ of dollars by themselves.

 

[glowe]

I see in your picture that the grips have a serial number stamped inside. Do those numbers match those stamped on the butt of the revolver frame?

If not, they are not original. The original medallion checked walnut stocks look like those below.