Cylinder sticks on 1918 New Cent Triple Lock .44 Spl

[44R]

Cowboy Ammo for Older 44 Hand Ejectors

Hi. Wanted to add my bit about ammo. I just shot a box of that Winchester 44 special Cowboy ammo. It has less kick in my Mod 1950's than shooting 38's from a mid size 357. So I would think, for those who do not have the time to reload, it is a good alternative. I did notice the Cowboy ammo makes a lot of smoke at my indoor range, but that's kind of fun. It is nitro powder.
Does anyone have an opinion on shooting cowboy ammo in older/collector guns?

 

[H Richard]

Cowboy ammo is usually loaded very mild, and would be very appropriate in an older S&W.

 

[hsguy]

Hi. Wanted to add my bit about ammo. I just shot a box of that Winchester 44 special Cowboy ammo. It has less kick in my Mod 1950's than shooting 38's from a mid size 357. So I would think, for those who do not have the time to reload, it is a good alternative. I did notice the Cowboy ammo makes a lot of smoke at my indoor range, but that's kind of fun. It is nitro powder.
Does anyone have an opinion on shooting cowboy ammo in older/collector guns?

I have used the Winchester 44 Special Cowboy ammo also and while it functioned well I agree it is smokey and perhaps the dirtiest ammo I have ever fired. I used it in a 696 out of concern for the thin forcing cone. Seemed quite mild and would probably work well in older guns if you don't mind some extra cleaning on the exterior of the gun, my stainless 696 was almost black from the ammo but cleaned easily.

 

[44R]

Smokey Cowboy Ammo

I meant to say, that is a beautiful triple lock. I hope to find one like that some day.

Yes, the Cowboy ammo was really smokey but, like you say, it cleaned up easily. In my case, it left no unburned powered or other coarse residue in the bore, just a very light soot. I wonder what chemical is put in the charge to make it smoke that way. Probably Winchester did this to create a black powder smoke effect in Western reenactments. It was easy to shoot accurately and had no problem staying in the black of a 50' NRA bullseye target. It was about ten dollars cheaper than the standard Remington 246 grain round-nose cast lead ammo.

 

[rburg]

One of my opinions, and you can take it for what its worth... is that one of the biggest reasons for any of us to reload is load cleanliness. Those that don't reload can and should use the same criteria. Sure, a load needs to push bullets out the barrel and punch holes in whatever. But once we see that they do that, we next need to see they actually group well. And when we achieve an acceptable level of accuracy, we also need to ascertain the relative level of smoke and debris generated. I think a big part of the smoke and soot is related to bullet lubrication. Its not at all unusual to have a "load" that performs to our liking, so we've used it for a while, often so long we don't want to admit it. But then the bullets we've loaded somehow become unavailable. Could be the maker went out of business or changed the lubricant. Or if we cast our own, we change for whatever reason. And then suddenly something we've loved and relied upon goes straight to the dumper.

I hate dirty loads, and I'll stop using one that displeases me.

Another option for those using really nice old guns that don't want to overstress them is to consider buying and trying 44 Russian ammo. Its like a 44 Short. Look at the ammo statistics, they're a hundred or so FPS slower than the Specials. No, I'm not advocating using them for self defense. But punching holes in paper or smallish critters it probably doesn't make a difference. The critter probably won't be able to distinguish if he's been hit with a 300gr magnum load or a 246 grain loafer. Overkill is good enough.

 

[44R]

44 S&W-R

....
Another option for those using really nice old guns that don't want to overstress them is to consider buying and trying 44 Russian ammo. Its like a 44 Short. Look at the ammo statistics, they're a hundred or so FPS slower than the Specials. No, I'm not advocating using them for self defense. But punching holes in paper or smallish critters it probably doesn't make a difference. The critter probably won't be able to distinguish if he's been hit with a 300gr magnum load or a 246 grain loafer. Overkill is good enough.

I would think the beautiful 44 Hand Ejector New Century in this thread is a formidable weapon by any standard.

I love the S&W 44R. Ballistically, I think it's the same as the Cowboy ammo. Loaded to spec, one would think 44R is an adequate self-defense round. It has about the same energy as a 9mm but is slower and bigger and probably hurts a lot more, making an awful Civil War-style wound.

I was talking to a holster maker, a retired NY officer who sounded exactly like NYPD Blue actor Dennis Franzen, and he mentioned that he had had to shoot a few people over the years. "You'd be surprised. People are tough, just like animals. They don't go down easy. It's all about shot placement." His preference was 44 Special, which he called "the best ever". It was a great conversation and I can't wait to get his holster.

 

[Grandpa Si]

Resolution of Cylinder Sticking in my .44 Triple Lock

Thanks to all who helped me to debug this problem. I wanted to let you know the definitive answer. It is purely a Remington ammo problem. I will try to attach photos of the bullet creep. I notified Remington and they sent me forms to send the ammo back. I then tested 3 other manufacturers. Perfect performance, no bullet creep. Thanks to all who weighed in on this. I learned about the year of manufacture and the grip upgrades!

 

[DCWilson]

Hi. Wanted to add my bit about ammo. I just shot a box of that Winchester 44 special Cowboy ammo. It has less kick in my Mod 1950's than shooting 38's from a mid size 357. So I would think, for those who do not have the time to reload, it is a good alternative. I did notice the Cowboy ammo makes a lot of smoke at my indoor range, but that's kind of fun. It is nitro powder.
Does anyone have an opinion on shooting cowboy ammo in older/collector guns?

Cowboy Action loads are my preferred ammo for my two .44 TLs. The modern standard (or warmer) ammo is the usual diet for my postwar .44s.

 

[DWalt]

Believe it or not a lot of CAS shooters want the smoky loads, as it sort of simulates using black powder. It is usually the result of using light charges of one of the slower handgun powders (such as Unique). Slower powders do not burn as completely at low pressures as faster ones (Bullseye, Red Dot, 231, AA#2, etc.) do, thus they are smoky.

I haven't shot CAS for 12 years, but when I did, my .44 Special load (which I used in a pair of modified Ruger Super Blackhawks and a Winchester Model 94 carbine in .44 Magnum) was always a 200 grain (revolver) or 240 grain (carbine) lead bullet with 6 grains of Alliant Bullseye. You definitely do not want to use heavy loads in CAS, as it is a timed game, and you can't waste time recovering from excessive recoil.

 

[Hondo44]

Some Cowboy loads are loaded with black powder since they are needed to qualify to shoot in the Blackpowder Cartridge Class. Some are loaded with blackpowder substitutes like Pyridex and Triple Seven which create the smoke without the clean-up mess and corrosion potential of real blackpowder.

Most Cowboy loads are loaded with mild charges of smokeless powder which is what I use and handload for old .44s.

If you choose cartridges loaded with a black powder substitute, I would choose only those loaded with Triple Seven as the only BP substitute with total non-corrosion potential equivalent to smokeless powder.

 

[44R]

I was using the Winchester Cowboy loads. They made lots of smoke and left a fine residue all over my Mod 1950, but that cleaned up easily. Are the Winchester Cowboy loads nitro powder?

 

[Grandpa Si]

I have also used the Winchester Cowboy loads. I don't see anything on the box about powder type and they advertise as "clean burning" and I don't see much more powder residue than from others. So I think we're talking about the same ammo but I can't tell you for sure about their powder.

 

[Hondo44]

I was using the Winchester Cowboy loads. They made lots of smoke and left a fine residue all over my Mod 1950, but that cleaned up easily. Are the Winchester Cowboy loads nitro powder?

Did it leave ash in the barrel like cigarette ashes? If it did, that and the fine residue sounds like Triple 7. But I don't know if Winchester would use Hogdon's powder in lieu of their own. The smaller companies do.