D.W. King Information Thread

[Modified]

As this becomes more information dense I'll be re-ordering and working on fixing this thread to make it more usable. As you will see scrolling down there are a lot of pages of catalogs here that I have put in.

For anyone just arriving who needs a handy dandy way to skip past all the catalogs, try this link: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-w-king-information-thread.html#post140673419


Some of the excellent information provided so far

OK, a deep dive about D.W. King should include these references:

• Pearce, Brian, “Colt-King Super Target: Super Sixgun from a Bygone Era,” Handloader Magazine, Feb-Mar 2005.
• Petty, Charles E., “A Pair of Kings: Stunning Workmanship and a Bit of Mystery Keeps the Past Alive,” Guns Magazine, Sep 2004.
• Ploeger, David W., “The D. W. King Gunsight Company,” Gun Digest, 58th Edition, 2004.
• Wallinger, James L. & King, Jim, “The King Gun Sight Company,” Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.
• Williams, Kevin, “Colt-King Super Target Woodsman Pistols,” The Rampant Colt, Winter 2006.

A couple of excerpts from the last article:

"D. W. King (1869-1945) was a prolific inventor of improvements for firearms and the D. W. King Gun Sight Company of San Francisco had been selling patented sights, ventilated ribs (which he patented in 1936), custom stocks and handgun grips, sporterized rifles and many other products and gunsmithing services since the early 1900’s. The company began advertising Colt-King Target Revolvers and Pistols in 1934 or earlier. These upgraded handguns offered King sights, trigger improvements, widened hammer spurs (the King “Cockeyed” hammer) and other improvements."

"The King Gun Sight Company spawned two successor companies. When D.W. King died in 1945 his widow hired a new manager who alienated a number of key employees. They left King to start Micro Sight Co. King and Micro were soon in court over patent infringement issues. King went out of business in 1953 whereupon two employees bought King’s name and intellectual property to start Ricky Gunsight Co. Ricky continued to sell King products...."

The King Gun Sight Company, a four part treatise by James L. Wallinger and Jim King (All Rights Reserved) appears in the SWCA Journals, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; and Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.

I have all of these. At such time as I'm (expertly) informed as to the exact meaning of "(All Rights Reserved)" and am confident none of my Mother's children will be placed in jeopardy, I'll be happy to provide copies as I may be instructed. This consists of 46 pages (+/-) that would do a college textbook proud.

Ralph Tremaine

Several of King's patents can be found on line at Google Patents (patents.google.com); search for Dean W. King. The earliest one I spotted in my hasty review regards his triple-bead rifle sight, for which he was granted a patent in 1906. He had filed the application over three years earlier, at which time his patent narrative asserted he was a resident of Denver, CO. I can believe he was in California by 1910, as census records seem to indicate.

US830442A - Gun-sight.- Google Patents

Original Post:
During a good chat with another SWCA member we got on the topic of old catalogs. He sent me a series of great things, one of which was this:



I let him know that I was in possession of 4 different King Catalogs, and the topic of scanning them in came up.

What I would like to do is create a thread that includes some King information, examples of King guns, different examples of king work, and maybe actually put down some of actual facts that can be supplied by members of the forum. If you can add anything concrete I'd love to have it. I will edit this first post as frequently as the baby allows.

In the short term I will probably mostly only be able to add scans of the catalogs I have, and start to put together different pictures of work examples. Over the long term I would like to have a single thread that people can come to for some real King information.

So expect this post to change. Particularly as I dig out more actual information on Dean. And please, add anything and everything King you can.

 

[Modified]

Oldest catalog I have, maybe about 1916? Still in Denver.

 

[Modified]

What seems to be an early catalog from after the move to San Francisco.

 

[Modified]

Catalog no. 19 (I should note that I don't own this catalog, I just found a copy in my files when searching back through my files for King related stuff, not entirely sure where I got it, if anyone wishes me to remove this just let me know and I will).

 

[Modified]

Catalog no. 20:

This one is mine. Interestingly it is far smaller then Catalog no. 21 dimensionally.

 

[Modified]

Catalog no. 21

 

[daddio202]

I think this is an excellent idea to help out all us King lovers in the forum. I bought a reproduction (I think its a1939 catalog) "modern sights for modern arms" so I would have information and would be happy to share it, but I believe it's the most common one. We have had many "post your King gun pictures" threads. I think your going for a different flavor though. I have 3 Colts with King enhancements but still no S&W. This will be intersting to me. Feel free to remove my post if commentary is not going to be included within thread.?.

 

[kwill1911]

Do you have the series of articles published in the Journal several years ago by King and Wallinger? Do you have the article from the Rampant Colt (CCA) about Colt King Super Target Woodsman pistols?

 

[Modified]

I think this is an excellent idea to help out all us King lovers in the forum. I bought a reproduction (I think its a1939 catalog) "modern sights for modern arms" so I would have information and would be happy to share it, but I believe it's the most common one. We have had many "post your King gun pictures" threads. I think your going for a different flavor though. I have 3 Colts with King enhancements but still no S&W. This will be intersting to me. Feel free to remove my post if commentary is not going to be included within thread.?.

Please, add anything at all you like to this. I'd also like to have a good reference for known king work (i.e. close up's of hammers) for people to have as a reference. Discussion of it's authenticity as king work is also incredibly welcome.

My main goal is to be able to share all the catalogs I have been able to find with everyone, make sure the information isn't lost.

My secondary goal is to have a thread that I can point people to which will either point them to every King source of information that I am aware of, and that anyone on the forum here can point to. For example;

Do you have the series of articles published in the Journal several years ago by King and Wallinger? Do you have the article from the Rampant Colt (CCA) about Colt King Super Target Woodsman pistols?

I do not. I'll go back through my journals, although they might be before I was an SWCA member.

Do you recall about the time frame they would have been published in?

Regarding the Rampant Colt publication, also no.

If we can sort out specifically where they were published I'd like to update the first post with that information.

I'd also like to see about trying to establish a clear timeline of when King was operating, should help us to date the catalogs better.

Also, I should be clear that for a lot of years of my collecting I was working so much that I was just sort of buying whatever I liked, which ended up being a lot of King stuff, but I never really had time to stop and do a lot of actual research. This is my way of going about doing that. And hopefully adding a bit to the general community knowledge in the process.

 

[kwill1911]

OK, a deep dive about D.W. King should include these references:

• Pearce, Brian, “Colt-King Super Target: Super Sixgun from a Bygone Era,” Handloader Magazine, Feb-Mar 2005.
• Petty, Charles E., “A Pair of Kings: Stunning Workmanship and a Bit of Mystery Keeps the Past Alive,” Guns Magazine, Sep 2004.
• Ploeger, David W., “The D. W. King Gunsight Company,” Gun Digest, 58th Edition, 2004.
• Wallinger, James L. & King, Jim, “The King Gun Sight Company,” Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.
• Williams, Kevin, “Colt-King Super Target Woodsman Pistols,” The Rampant Colt, Winter 2006.

 

[kwill1911]

A couple of excerpts from the last article:

"D. W. King (1869-1945) was a prolific inventor of improvements for firearms and the D. W. King Gun Sight Company of San Francisco had been selling patented sights, ventilated ribs (which he patented in 1936), custom stocks and handgun grips, sporterized rifles and many other products and gunsmithing services since the early 1900’s. The company began advertising Colt-King Target Revolvers and Pistols in 1934 or earlier. These upgraded handguns offered King sights, trigger improvements, widened hammer spurs (the King “Cockeyed” hammer) and other improvements."

"The King Gun Sight Company spawned two successor companies. When D.W. King died in 1945 his widow hired a new manager who alienated a number of key employees. They left King to start Micro Sight Co. King and Micro were soon in court over patent infringement issues. King went out of business in 1953 whereupon two employees bought King’s name and intellectual property to start Ricky Gunsight Co. Ricky continued to sell King products...."

 

[chiefdave]

Great post but I feel a bit depressed after looking at the prices. Gave a lot more for my King equipped post war M&P.

 

[daddio202]

Here is the article "Colt-King super target Woodsman pistols" sent to me by a forum member here. By Kevin Williams. I do not know how to post in any way other than thumbnails. Maybe somebody can blow them up to be easily read without clicking on each page.

 

[clang444]

Great thread and great posts.

Here is my Reg Mag with King sites and short action cockeyed hammer:

 

[rct269]

The King Gun Sight Company, a four part treatise by James L. Wallinger and Jim King (All Rights Reserved) appears in the SWCA Journals, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; and Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.

I have all of these. At such time as I'm (expertly) informed as to the exact meaning of "(All Rights Reserved)" and am confident none of my Mother's children will be placed in jeopardy, I'll be happy to provide copies as I may be instructed. This consists of 46 pages (+/-) that would do a college textbook proud.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Erocksmash]

Absolutely amazing sir!

 

[Troystat]

Neat thread, those old catalogs are a lot of fun and a wealth of information. Thanks for showing us.

 

[rednichols]

For anyone just arriving who needs a handy dandy way to skip past all the catalogs, try this link: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-w-king-information-thread.html#post140673419

I'll see about trying to find a good way to collapse, or put the catalogs elsewhere with links to them.


During a good chat with another SWCA member we got on the topic of old catalogs. He sent me a series of great things, one of which was this:



I let him know that I was in possession of 4 different King Catalogs, and the topic of scanning them in came up.

What I would like to do is create a thread that includes some King information, examples of King guns, different examples of king work, and maybe actually put down some of actual facts that can be supplied by members of the forum. If you can add anything concrete I'd love to have it. I will edit this first post as frequently as the baby allows.

In the short term I will probably mostly only be able to add scans of the catalogs I have, and start to put together different pictures of work examples. Over the long term I would like to have a single thread that people can come to for some real King information.

So expect this post to change. Particularly as I dig out more actual information on Dean. And please, add anything and everything King you can.

Leaving out that 'the writer' in the photo is a young Charlie Askins. Recently I was given a copy of a 1956 letter from Ed McGivern to a friend and he did. not. like. Charlie. The phrase "BS" was mentioned with his name.

The Denver catalog is a bit bothersome because Dean Wallace King Jr. is in San Jose for the 1910 census and in San Francisco for 1920's; the former as a gunpowder demonstrator and in the latter as a sales manager for Remington Rand. It is in the 1930 census that he appears first as a gunsight maker.

King's catalog number 4 is openly dated as 1931; suggesting that if King's catalogs were issued sequentially as were Heiser's in that era, then his No. 1 w/b 1928 etc. until No. 19 and No. 20 w/b 1946 and 1947 respectively. That's plausible given his 1930 census appearance as his first as a gunsight maker.

So. Anyway, my interest, after my friend and coauthor turnerriver directed me to this thread, is the notice on the page of holsters (which is his and my specialty) that one model is by Lewis Holster formerly Clark; and indeed the image is best known as a Clark. This resonates because the two brands are indistinguishable and I have long postulated they were the same company; different addresses but Lewis himself can't be found by all the usual methods.

I'd be interested to know more about this particular connection and this post has brought me a bit closer to the 'when'; the why w/b that both Clark (1947) and King (1945) died at War's end. But who is Lewis?

 

[Green Frog]

I have one gun with a King connection, an already rare High Standard Model H-E with King sights and Sanderson grips. At one time I owned a King tang sight for a Winchester high wall from back in the pre- WW I era, so I’m thinking the early catalog cited is probably legit for that era. Just a question based on my limited knowledge on the subject... was Dean King Senior also involved in sight making? Could this explain seeing earlier items from “DW King?”

Froggie

PS I really want to have my Baby Chiefs Special upgraded to the “King Super Police” configuration!

 

[DCWilson]

Several of King's patents can be found on line at Google Patents (patents.google.com); search for Dean W. King. The earliest one I spotted in my hasty review regards his triple-bead rifle sight, for which he was granted a patent in 1906. He had filed the application over three years earlier, at which time his patent narrative asserted he was a resident of Denver, CO. I can believe he was in California by 1910, as census records seem to indicate.

US830442A - Gun-sight.- Google Patents