DA (not) Frontier questions

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I picked up this double action frontier in a 3 gun trade/purchase. I do not know much about the revolver other than it was the 1st DA revolver S&W made. How do I identify the caliber of this revolver? What is an estimate on value and ship date? SN 33191
 

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You probably have a S&W .44 Russian revolver. Look at the chambers. If there is a noticeable shoulder about 2/3 of the way down the cylinder then that will designate the .44 Russian cartridge. Also, if the cylinder is 1 7/16" (not 1 9/16") you have a .44 Russian.
 
PSSSSSSSSSSSSSTT!!

The 1 7/16" you're looking for is the long way----not the cross way.

The short cylinder will accommodate the Russian. So will the 1 9/16", but the long one came into being to accommodate the 44/40---on the Frontier model.

S00000000000000000000-----if it's chambered for .44 Russian, it ain't a Frontier---and if it's a Frontier, it ain't .44 Russian----and besides all this chain yanking, given the serial number (over 15000 something) it ain't a Frontier anyhow---nohow.

Cheer Up----it'll get worse.

Ralph Tremaine

And what looks like 1 7/16"??
 
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Ralph, you sure know how to cheer a fella up. It is scruffy as HE double hockey sticks, but I like the old thing. It was a throw in on the other two I grabbed, so I will count it as a low impact worse. Actually, you keep me laughing with your insight. That alone made my day/night.

What makes it even better is you pointing out my inadequacy at reading a tape measure. Ah heck, watch what comes next. You can see where I marked the tape correctly, I just posted the wrong photo.
 

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Matthew, Ralph is one of our more knowledgeable and eloquent posters and his answers always contain a bit of humor.

I am not up on value of these guns but condition is to guns as location is to real estate. Your gun is not a boat anchor but is also not pristine. I would rate it around 60% but that's me.

My best method to establish value is to look at the sold listings on a site like Gun Broker to see what others have been getting. The current listings can be deceiving because you can ask any price but that does not mean that you will get it. You could also pick up a copy of the Standard Catalog of S&W which many times will give values. Personally I think their estimates on some items are high but again that's just me.

Either way, it is still a cool gun IMHO and if it is not something that you collect, try offering it here in the for sale section as many S&W collectors lurk here. ;)
 
You guys are truly educational and with just enough humor thrown in to keep it interesting ,not many real smart people have good sense of humor thanks for never letting it get dry lol. Actually I like that 44 Russian .Why ? I don't know I just like saying " 44 Russian" i guess ,cool gun thanks for posting and thanks guys for the education and intertainment I needed it this morning.
 
Made in 1880s, it looks like it's escaped bubba & if its function is OK, I'd pay $500 for it, maybe 6 ---->
 
Likely more like middle 1890's as it seems to have the S&W logo stamp on the frame.
5" barrel?
 
Matthew, I have found the 4" barrel harder to find than the 6". I don't know if this is an off-shoot of the Cowboy Action Shooter "side matches" where the 4" barrel seems to be preferred or if the short barrel was not made in as large a quantity as the longer one. Lightly loaded smokeless rounds are available for that revolver but keep in mind that parts are almost impossible to find should something break.
 
M Conrad 03 11, NM Navy, .44 Russian Double Action, serial number 33191, was made March 24, 1896. You will need a factory historical letter to get the shipping date & info. Ed.
 
Thank you Ed. That is impressive, I do not believe I have ever received a mfg date before. I do not see any military markings on this DA NM3. I am assuming that it is a commercial model. Can you tell if this was a blue or nickle by what is left of the finish?

The action in both single and double work well. The revolver cycles well, the timing is good and, lock up also. I was wondering if there is a spring catch to the break top latch or is it just free movement for lack of better description? It just seems like there would be a more refined latch system or if this is normal function of this model? To better explain, the top break latch seems to move up to open easily after the safety has been released. I would think that there would be some tension on the latch to help keep it in the closed position. I do not visually see any detent provisions on the latch or frame.

I am unable to remove the stocks, as the screw keeper is rotating in the right stock when I turn the screw.

Both 4 and 6 inch barrels were discussed above. Are they both less prevalent than the 5 inch barrels?

Thank you all for the insight and comments.
 
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A PIECE OF CAKE

Thank you Ed. That is impressive, I do not believe I have ever gotton a mfg date before. I do not see any military markings on this DA NM3. I am assuming that it is a commercial model. Can you tell if this was a blue or nickle by what is left of the finish?

The action in both single and double work well. The revolver cycles well, the timing is good and, lock up also. I was wondering if there is a spring catch to the break top latch or is it just free movement for lack of better description? It just seems like there would be a more refined latch system or if this is normal function of this model? To better explain, the top break latch seems to move up to open easily after the safety has been released. I would think that there would be some tension on the latch to help keep it in the closed position. I do not visually see any detent provisions on the latch or frame.

I am unable to remove the stocks, as the screw keeper is rotating in the right stock when I turn the screw.

Both 4 and 6 inch barrels were discussed above. Are they both less prevalent than the 5 inch barrels?

Thank you all for the insight and comments.

Latch Stuff: Yes, there's a spring as part of the latch assembly---or is supposed to be. So now it's autopsy time:

1. Open the gun.

2. Remove the screw directly ahead of the latch.

3. Remove the latch---straight back. (Note there's a hole in the top strap (right in front of where the latch used to be)---going in the same direction as the barrel. Inside this hole is/should be the barrel catch cam and it's spring. There'll almost certainly be about a 100 years worth of crud in there too. You can pick at the crud if you want to, but it's a waste of time. Put it to soak in your favorite crud soaker, and go play with your children's mother---for a looooooong time.

4. Back to business: Remove any and everything inside the hole with toothpicks/dental picks/what have you. You will eventually see a little ramp inside the hole---or should see it. Push on it at the bottom---coincident with the bottom of the hole-----with a non-marring instrument (plastic rod/wooden dowel). If it has soaked long enough, it should move---forward----and then back (if there's a spring behind it----as there should be). It's never going to move very far. More soak stuff and more pushing will/should eventually result in free movement of not very much----and it's a stout spring, so some effort is required.

Remember 6th-7th grade general science---and that stuff about inertia and momentum? That's your best bet for getting the little ramp thing (barrel catch cam) out of the hole----if it didn't fall out---which it didn't---because it hasn't soaked long enough---or your soaker stuff isn't good enough---or you didn't clean out the exit hole well enough---or all of the above.

Keep at it.

Now---if there's nothing in the hole besides crud, it's a piece of cake: Clean out the hole. Get a replacement cam and spring, and put it in the hole---spring first. Resist the temptation to lubricate the cam/hole with anything besides a dry lube.

Reassembly is the reverse of the above. (I've always wanted to say that. I've also wanted to kill everybody who's ever said it.)

Ralph Tremaine

And by the by, a "screw keeper" is known as an escutcheon (Good luck with the pronunciation!!) As to the fix, someone will be along directly to help---or I hope they will; because I've forgotten. Although now that I've said that, it seems like mashing on it with a pencil eraser has to do with it. And now that I think about that, it at least makes sense.
 
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Ralph, you owe me $1300 for a trip to the emergency room, which will be discussed later. Thank you for the directions, I followed them to a T.

1. Open the gun...oh yeah, I got this, this is too easy.

2. Remove the screw... Only one screw, I am a genius. I am on my way to becoming a gunsmith.

3. Remove the latch --straight back...I sure hope straight back means toward the butt. Heck yeah, I am a real life phenomenon. This gunsmithing is easy work. Wait, there is no hole. Ralph said there would be a hole. No problem, I am now a world class gunsmith, I can get the drill and make one. Wait a minute...blah, blah,blah, CRUD...oh yeah, 100 years of crud. I am supposed to soak it and play with the kid's mom. I don't know what this has to do with Gunsmithing, but I am sure she won't mind to help such a magnificent protege as myself after she has worked her third night shift in the open heart intensive care unit. Fast forward to my return from the $1300 ER visit. I hope Ralph thinks he is funny, the kid's mother didn't think I should wake her up for this important step.

4. Back to business... Fortunately, my trip to the emergency room should have allowed the gun some extra soaking time and I was able to procure some wooden sticked cotton tipped applicators (Q-TIPS) for the cleaning/probing step. Oh no, I was so excited about the play with the children's mother step that I skipped the soaking step. This was due to the thesaurus word of the day for scrabble thingy (escutcheon) that prevented me from removing the stocks. Probing, cleaning, and exploration through the crud led (formerly known as lead) me to a sloped metal ramp still yet with no hole, spring, or cam. I may be missing a part or two? Photos attached below
 

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See the little tit pointing forward on the latch ahead of the screw hole? It came out of the hole in question. Accordingly, the hole is there. And inside the hole is (should be) the thing with a ramp on it (cam)---and behind/ahead of that is (should be) the spring.

Now, your mention of a sloped metal ramp (which is inside the hole in question) suggests you're well on your way to success. It would be easier if I could decipher your ramblings----and spelling. By "lead" (me to a sloped metal ramp) did you perchance mean "led"? And if so------GOTCHA!!

Ralph Tremaine
 
I have continued to try and get behind the sloped face (possible cam), but I am unable to find any seams that would suggest that it is the cam and that it would come out. I wonder if this is the back wall of the hole, and that the cam and spring are missing? I have attached better photos of the hole in question.

Ralph, is it time for the hammer? Lol, in all seriousness, the inertia that may be needed to remove the cam could best be applied in which manner as to not damage the barrel, if indeed that is the cam that I am working on?
 

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