DA (not) Frontier questions

Nope! That's the cam. It looks like it is really crudded in there.
Do you have access to a sonic cleaner? If so you might fill the tank with some solvent (I would tend toward Auto Transmission fluid and kerosene or Kroil, let it soak for several days and then turn on the sonic for a while. (Remove the barrel from the frame......)
 
The sloped face is most certainly the cam. Getting behind it is not likely (but can be done).

We need to go back to whatever step involved soaking----or perhaps just define the term so we're on the same page. The enemy here is crud. It has been accumulating forever---or a long time---whichever comes first. A little shot of whatever magic potion is not going to get the job done.

Soaking: Submerged in an appropriate solvent---and left there---typically for 2-3 days----or longer. Not to depress you, but I've soaked stuff for 2-3 weeks. The good news is it works---eventually.

You're dealing with a piece of precision machinery which has been neglected at best---abused at worst. There's no fast fix. It (the cam) is stuck because there's crud in front of it (in front being what you can see). And/or it's stuck because there's crud underneath and on both sides of it. There isn't much of a top to it, so we'll ignore that for now. What I see in the photos may be the result of magnification, but I see evidence of pitting. Pitting suggests rust. Rust suggests the cam is rusted in place. That has some credibility---as witnessed by by your earlier statement to the effect there was no spring pressure acting on the latch. Crud solvent is one thing---rust solvent is something else. (I've never had to deal with rust.) My crud solvent of choice is mineral spirits---probably because I can get my hands on it in short order. Getting may hands on anything else is a 50-100 mile round trip. And having said that, some of the brethren have suggested (and sworn by) some magic elixir (for rust) which I don't recall---at least not for sure and certain. My knee-jerk recollection is a 50-50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid (and even I can get those in short order). Thinking about that concoction for not very long leads me to believe it'd be good for what ails you----no matter what ails you. (The acetone seems like it would work on crud, and I'm guessing the ATF would work on rust.) Somebody needs to help us out here. Is my recollection correct?

The Bottom Line: There ain't no quick fix----soak it.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside----and you're nowhere even close to being ready for this, the inertia/momentum business involves TAPPING the back of the barrel (off the frame is advised/recommended) on a (protected) hard surface. The back of the barrel consists of a couple of relatively flimsy ears, so there's to be NO WHAMMITY-BAMMING----just tapping. Similarly there's to be no side loads---tap straight down. Side loads are used to bend things. A "protected hard surface" is whatever you're using for a work bench with a rubber mat on it. Any (ANY) inertia/momentum business is conducted AFTER you're able to move the cam forward---and have the spring push it back. In the highly unlikely event the spring is broken (more likely not there because of a Bubba somewhere along the line) then Plan C is called for. Plan C involves the use of some of my vast collection of dental picks-------and an equally vast amount of patience. And the dental picks are useless until after the crud/rust/whatever is dealt with---although they work great for cleaning the front side.
 
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Be careful with a sonic cleaner. Make sure the part is completely submerged otherwise a 'ring-around-the-tub' may result on the barrel or any other part put in the ultrasonic.

As Ralph and Dean stated; that is the cam you need to remove to find the spring inside the drilled hole. I suggest a 24 hour soaking in Kroil or other good solvent or rust penetrant (Liquid Wrench, etc.) and then heating the latch area with a hair drier (no flames, please). When warm to the touch (fairly hot) dunk it in the solvent for another soak. Repeat as necessary. Be patient; it will eventually free up.
 
In addition to heat one can also use cold. I have in the past taken rusted and or cruded metal pieces and used a combination of heating (hair dryer) and freezing (freezer). As heating expands the metal pieces, freezing contracts the metal.

It is this movement of the metal that will help break the lock placed on it by rust and crud.

I admit that I have never tried this on gun parts so cannot speak to that.

Good luck.
 
Dean, Mike, Ralph.and James, thank you for your help. A good soaking it is. I will have to get the stocks off first, as it would appear that the pin holding the barrel in place may need some break free juice as well.

To be continued...
 
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Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, or, at least a few...
These are from a .32 DA of the same vintage, but they're all the same. Just different size.

Sorry about the quality of the pics, but I was in a hurry....

latch.jpg
 
As an aside----and you're nowhere even close to being ready for this, the inertia/momentum business involves TAPPING the back of the barrel (off the frame is advised/recommended) on a (protected) hard surface. The back of the barrel consists of a couple of relatively flimsy ears, so there's to be NO WHAMMITY-BAMMING----just tapping. Similarly there's to be no side loads---tap straight down. Side loads are used to bend things. A "protected hard surface" is whatever you're using for a work bench with a rubber mat on it. Any (ANY) inertia/momentum business is conducted AFTER you're able to move the cam forward---and have the spring push it back. In the highly unlikely event the spring is broken (more likely not there because of a Bubba somewhere along the line) then Plan C is called for. Plan C involves the use of some of my vast collection of dental picks-------and an equally vast amount of patience. And the dental picks are useless until after the crud/rust/whatever is dealt with---although they work great for cleaning the front side.
Click to expand...

Now Ralph, surely you are referring to the time that it will take for loosening crud rather than my Bubba Gump Smiddy Co. skill set. I will have you know, that after the wife left to go back to work at the hospital last night, I went into her bathroom and got her Sonicare toothbrush out and placed it in the kitchen sink with my "one shot wonder " special formula soaker agent of O'Reilly'$ ATF and some of her nail polish remover (real close to acetone). I had to also buy some of those Christmas tree air fresheners to help with the smell. As for heat, I may have to use the microwave, her hair dryer didn't like being submerged in the secret formula. You needn't worry about my "tapping" skills, I am not a "whammity - bamming" type of guy. Well it is off to work for me today and we will see how time works it's magic on on my barrel while I am away. Wish me luck!
 
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A thought came to me while reading through this thread again. Has anyone ever tried placing the rusted or cruddy parts in their favorite recipe of crud buster and put in on the stove to warm up???? I am wondering if the combination of heat and oil would break the bond any faster???

Obviously, one would need to make sure that their concoction was not flammable but the boiling concoction might just do the trick.

Is their a temperature that would possibly harm the heat treating of the metal? Perhaps not boiling the mixture but merely bringing it to a very warm level.....

Just some random thoughts. :cool:
 
Is their a temperature that would possibly harm the heat treating of the metal?
Click to expand...
You'd have to take the temperature up to 600 degrees or higher and hold for a long time.

I don't think these old guns were heat treated at all after they were forged.
 
One would have to study the boiling points of the ingredients used and the volatility of each, which would likely change when mixed and maybe even more with the addition of heat. I may have to break out the grill and test with something else 1st.

1. ATF is meant to withstand heat and may resist boiling without substantial heat. I read that as "probably safe?"
2. Acetone very volatile and suggest no heat...I read "definitely not safe by itself" where is the grill?

There are proper ways to heat acetone, but I think I will wait and let time take its course with a safe room temperature mixture. I can not afford any more ER visits this week. Which reminds me, I should have taken that Sonicare toothbrush out of the kitchen sink this morning before the children's mother got home from work.
 
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Obviously, one would need to make sure that their concoction was not flammable but the boiling concoction might just do the trick.
Click to expand...
This reminded me of some instructions in an old photography manual (circ. 1903) on how to make some solution used in developing negatives. Among the items in the list of things needed were a large porcelain pot, a wooden board large enough to cover the pot and a kitchen stove. (wood, coal or gas in those days...) The board was to be used to smother the fire when (note "when", not "if") the mixture ignited. :eek:;)
 
In the beginning-----------------------See Post # 14 (which I took to say there's no spring tension on the latch). I'm thinking I paid too much attention to spring---and tension----and such like---which is to say my brain was in neutral---or just stuck in the mud.

I am quick to tell folks about Problem Solving School when they seem to be off on a wild goose chase----lesson number one being to make sure you know what the real problem is---so as to not be spending resources solving symptoms. Here I/we have leaped to a stuck cam/broken (missing?) spring as the problem. It would certainly appear the cam is at least impeded, but SOMETHING is moving. If the latch is in contact with the cam in the closed position, SOMETHING has to be able to move in order to raise the latch. And if the latch is NOT in contact with the cam in the closed position, then maybe we're on the right track. The only other SOMETHINGS in the equation are the screw/screw hole----make that holeS---and the frame horns---and the latch itself (the holes that fit over the frame horns). There's a screw hole in the frame----there's a screw hole in the latch. The hole in the frame is likely to be just fine. The hole in the latch looks to be round. Is it? Are there any cracks around the circumference of the hole in the latch? So, how's the screw? Is it the same dimension throughout its length? Are there any grooves in the shank? Was the screw tight when you went to take it out?

Another possibility is the frame horns----that which the latch grabs onto (not to mention the latch itself). Is the barrel/frame assembly tight---as one, when the gun is closed? And if it isn't, why isn't it?

The foregoing presented as food for thought----SOMETHING must be moving. What is it?

Ralph Tremaine
 
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Ralph, those are all fantastic points to ponder and investigate. The frame locks up tight as one when the latch is closed completely. There is zero tension ever on the latch open or closed. It moves freely from closed to open until the tit at the front of the latch makes contact with the frozen cam, suggesting that cam is frozen in the foward most position. Is this a result of a broken/missing spring, I will soon find out. I had examined for cracks initially, but will reexamine all areas and potential problems mentioned above when I return home this afternoon. All screws removed so far have not been warped, stripped or damaged in any way and all were tight. I think your initial diagnosis is the correct diagnosis

I should say, there is the initial tension from the latch being locked into the closed position from the frame horns making direct, snug contact with all areas of the latch, but not from the cam to the latch.
 
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