Damage from Cleaning "Lower Receiver"

[wbear]

Ha! I wish brake cleaner or carb cleaner still had a few of those nasty sounding chemicals mentioned in an earlier reply above. Then they would still work like they did originally.

The EPA has made sure all the effective aromatic solvents can no longer be put in these and many other products. This has reduced their performance to "***, why doesn't my carpet spot remover work any more?

Remember how everyone loved Thompson's Water Seal, not anymore.
Read some reviews of the "new and improved formula" before putting it on your deck.

 

[Decipher]

Very reputable gun builders recommend using non-chlorinated brake cleaner on ARs. That has been my practice for a while now but I intend on changing that. It does damage plastics and I have zero intentions on using it for my 15-22.

Lastly, I can't fathom the idea of firing a weapon without first cleaning it and inspecting it. Check out the handgun threads here. A guy just found a cracked slide on his brand new Shield. Had he shot it, my guess is it would have killed him. Even just cleaning my 15-22 for the first time showed excessive amounts of machining debris in my barrel. So...yeah...clean and lube your new weapon. The oil on your new gun is machining oil, not lubrication.

 

[plinx]

Is Ballistol bad for polymer and/or plastics on guns? Does it do any harm to any part of the 15-22? If I understand right, someone from S&W said (to paraphrase them) they'd recommend using a cleaner that is better for newer finishes, and that works well with polymer to clean my 15-22.

(I guess they are implying Ballistol is bad for polymer and new finishes on the 15-22...?)

But I got conflicting advice... others seem adamant that Ballistol works wonders on all their guns, including the 15-22. The internet is filled with posts like that, but not specifically about the 15-22.

 

[roadkill45]

non chlorinated brake clean $1.97 at Walmart, rem oil, and Mobile one and a bore snake is all i use on any of my guns. you just have to remember it is a very effective paint stripper. sometimes that's a good thing if you are redoing a crappy camo job.
read the brake cleaner can, then read the gun scrubber can...same stuff! I don't go for the latest greatest snake oil on the market when there are a limited amount of chemicals really that can be used and most already have been.
you just don't go crazy with the stuff and i break down my gun prior to using brake cleaner. have never had an issue on any of my polymer guns.
if using on anything with wood, i take it off first, like i said it will take off a clear coat.
AR lowers just get an air job with the compressor, i have CMC triggers so not worried about lubing those.

way too much hype over choosing a cheap alternative ie brake cleaner, over way too expensive frog ****, or ballistol, or whatever.

 

[Decipher]

My only issue with the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is the residue type feeling left after using it. My AR is all nickel boron and it leaves a very fine white film on it. Once I give her a good wipe down with a quality synthetic gun oil, she's good as new. I have no plans on using it or getting it anywhere close to my 15-22. I got some of it on my foregrip and it blemished the pastic a bit. That's enough for me to keep it away from my new weapon.

I simply use Hopps #9 and lint free rags to clean all my weapons. It works great, doesn't damage a thing, and allows me to carefully inspect as I go. Follow that with an oil wipe, and one good final wipe down and I'm good to go. I agree. No need for the latest and greatest. It doesn't exist.

 

[roadkill45]

it will "dry" out the metal, and after that, i just use some spray rem oil to bring all my Glocks and AR's back to black. i actually don't clean the 15-22 that much.
bore snake, wipe around extractor/ejector and blow out the lower. that's about it.

 

[Decipher]

The bore snake is one of the best tools out there for cleaning, hands down. It's a must with any rifle.

 

[tomcatt51]

My only issue with the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is the residue type feeling left after using it.

What you're seeing/feeling is a really clean part with no oil on it. Run an oily cloth over it and you get back to the "oiled part" feel you're accustomed to.

What you get when buying "gun specific" cleaners is frequently the same stuff they package for other (higher volume) applications but you get to pay twice as much because it's labeled "gun cleaner".

 

[Decipher]

Yeah, the more I thought about it the more I realized it was just that. Thanks!

 

[johncal]

What you're seeing/feeling is a really clean part with no oil on it. Run an oily cloth over it and you get back to the "oiled part" feel you're accustomed to.

What you get when buying "gun specific" cleaners is frequently the same stuff they package for other (higher volume) applications but you get to pay twice as much because it's labeled "gun cleaner".

Or he did damage the polymer and the oil just hides it.

Would you care to back up your statement about other non-relate products being repackaged as gun cleaner with any type of proof?

Not trying to be argumentative but that sounds like a pretty good reach.

 

[tomcatt51]

Or he did damage the polymer and the oil just hides it.

Would you care to back up your statement about other non-relate products being repackaged as gun cleaner with any type of proof?

Not trying to be argumentative but that sounds like a pretty good reach.

Read post #42 which is what I quoted and responded to. The "ingredients" are listed on (for example) Gun Scrubber and Brake Cleaner cans and the MSDS sheets are available, all you have to do is read and compare.

I've been cleaning with the original Ed's Red mix, Dexron II ATF, Mineral Spirits and K1 Kerosene and have used electrical contact cleaner and brake cleaner for 20+ yrs. Marvel Mystery Oil is great for stubborn carbon deposits. Hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar removes lead from comps but leaves you with a lead acetate precipitate that needs to be handled carefully.

My sonic cleaner is full of Ed's Red. When it gets scruzzy it gets filtered thru cooking oil filters and re-used.

Lube is synthetic motor oil and synthetic D6 ATF and Aero Shell 22 synthetic grease. The Shell equivalent of the Mobil synthetic grease Giessele supplies a small vial of with their triggers.

.

 

[johncal]

Read post #42 which is what I quoted and responded to. The "ingredients" are listed on (for example) Gun Scrubber and Brake Cleaner cans and the MSDS sheets are available, all you have to do is read and compare.

I've been cleaning with the original Ed's Red mix, Dexron II ATF, Mineral Spirits and K1 Kerosene and have used electrical contact cleaner and brake cleaner for 20+ yrs. Marvel Mystery Oil is great for stubborn carbon deposits. Hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar removes lead from comps but leaves you with a lead acetate precipitate that needs to be handled carefully.

My sonic cleaner is full of Ed's Red. When it gets scruzzy it gets filtered thru cooking oil filters and re-used.

Lube is synthetic motor oil and synthetic D6 ATF and Aero Shell 22 synthetic grease. The Shell equivalent of the Mobil synthetic grease Giessele supplies a small vial of with their triggers.

.

While it may be true that some of the ingredients are the same, not All of the ingredients will be the same and the harmful ones will be left out or the percentage may be a lot different.

Your inference was that product "A" is just relabeled product "b". You make it sound as though some gun cleaning product companys just buy automatic transmission cleaner or brake cleaner or whatever and slap a gun oil label on it. I still want to know what company does that and if you can tell us who.

While a gun cleaner may for instance use most of the components of brake cleaner, they would not use any chemicals in the chlorine family or it would hurt the polymer. If they use chlorine, then don't use it.

Also, if Giessele is supplying something to clean their triggers, all that means is that they tested it to be safe on THEIR triggers. I would doubt they are saying you can safely use it anywhere on their gun. If they are, then they don't have a good legal team.

Also, by law a proprietary blend of ingredients in not legally required to be displayed. Only a safety warning and the associated chemical hazard are required to be displayed by law. This means all of the ingredients might not be listed. For instance a "petroleum "distillate" may be noted as an ingredient. That could be almost any petroleum based chemical. Some harmful and some not.

Hand making a cleaner out of other products may work or it may hurt the polymer if you missed one of the dangerous components that are ingredients.

Personally for the miniscule amount of product needed to clean a gun, I am inclined to spend an extra $2 and get one that is proven safe by tons of users that can vouch for the product.

However, if you can tell me who is re-labeling another product exactly and prove that, then I would consider buying that product and be very appreciative for the info. Why would I waste my money?

I don't doubt that what you are saying and what you think are for the most part probably true as far as results go. Most of the time you can get away with it and it "probably" won't hurt anything especially if not left on the gun too long. But coming from a research background I would say a lot of careful chemical testing under controlled conditions is needed before trying something.

For instance household ammonia and chlorine bleach both seem pretty common and safe in the house but mix them together and it releases chlorine gas - which can kill you.

I'm just saying be very careful. Why take chances?

 

[Road Man]

If they listed the ingredients for modern firearm cartridges...

1) Copper jacketed lead projectile
2) Smokeless powder
3) Primer
4) Brass casing

Why won't this cartridge made for my little .380 Auto pistol work in my 5.56 AR rifle, my .308 hunting rifle, or my .44 Magnum revolver? It's cheaper and is made of the same stuff. I must save money, nothing else matters!

I will continue to use gun solvents made specifically for guns when I clean my firearms.

 

[tomcatt51]

... coming from a research background...

"Research"? Maybe marketing research? Maybe then you'd know how many great highly promoted/touted lubes and cleaners have come and gone. Highly praised by their marketing departments and hyped by internet parrots (aka "proven safe by tons of users") who mindlessly repeat what they've read.

Try reading MSDS sheets if you want info.

Buy whatever you feel "safe" with based on whatever hype best suits you.

 

[Jaymo]

It's not about residue or allowing brake cleaner enough time to completely evaporate outside when there's no one around. In fact, just the opposite. Brake cleaner takes time to evaporate and a little pocket or puddle would take longer. Heat would speed up the vaporization. Breathing brake cleaner while it is evaporating or when vaporized by heat, is not advised. It's about before, not after it's gone.

?????????????????

You're not supposed to breathe the fumes from ANY solvent, gun or automotive.

If it pools inside your gun, you're doing it incorrectly.

Besides, brake cleaner evaporates VERY quickly.
Carb cleaner evaporates quickly, but not as quickly as brake cleaner.
I use both, daily, at work.
Both say to avoid contact with plastics/rubbers.
Styrenes and Polycarbonates are specifically listed, because they are susceptible to damage.
PE, PA, and PP are unaffected by them.
Most commonly used rubbers aren't affected unless you leave them soaking in it.
Plastic and rubber parts are often unavoidably sprayed with these solvents during brake jobs and fuel system maintenance/repairs.
They suffer no degradation.

HOWEVER, brake cleaner will render Polycarbonate compounds *****.
It will make them develop spiderweb cracks and crumble like a stale cookie, often immediately after contact.
So, keep your 3rd gen Smith Xenoy grips the hell away from brake cleaner, since Xenoy is a PC/ABS blend.

I don't recall how/if it affects Delrin.
I'll have to cut off a piece and soak it.
I made a replacement handle for my brother's Chinese chef's knife, from black Delrin rod.
Six years of use and exposure to chlorinated dishwashing detergent has not harmed it.

As far as chlorinated solvents go, you don't want to use them on metal OR plastic parts.

I'm not going to tell anyone here what to use to clean their guns.
I will use what I wish, and if/when it causes a material failure, I will post it here, along with how long I had to use it before failure occurred.

I do not use solvents on my plastic parts, BTW.
On steel/aluminum, yes.
You can also use lighter fluid as a degreaser prior to lubing.

I've been using Ed's Red for a while now.
I even made some from Dexron/carb cleaner/brake cleaner/ rust penatrant, to use as a pour-on rust penetrant at work.

Have a nice week.

 

[tomcatt51]

I've been using Ed's Red for a while now.
I even made some from Dexron/carb cleaner/brake cleaner/ rust penatrant, to use as a pour-on rust penetrant at work.

+1 for Ed's Red. I don't add the 4th component (acetone) as I use it in my sonic cleaner also. I wonder if that's now not allowed being "home brewed" and none of the components being "gun specific"?

The traditional time honored penetrant is Dexron and acetone (similar to your mix and pretty similar and arguably better than the much more expensive Kroil) but I guess that's not gun specific...

Too bad some will only use GUN SPECIFIC chemicals. That certainly precludes quite a huge number of excellent products like Corrosion X and the synthetic motor oils and greases we've found to work extremely well...

Does look like it's going to be a nice week. Happy end of Summer.

 

[Majorlk]

The traditional time honored penetrant is Dexron and acetone (similar to your mix and pretty similar and arguably better than the much more expensive Kroil) but I guess that's not gun specific...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding that acetone should NOT be used on polymers.

 

[johncal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding that acetone should NOT be used on polymers.

I will not correct you because you are correct.

 

[tomcatt51]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding that acetone should NOT be used on polymers.

True, but I'm not sure why you'd need or want to use a PENETRANT on polymer.

 

[Majorlk]

True, but I'm not sure why you'd need or want to use a PENETRANT on polymer.

Exactly my thought!