Dancing FBI agent in custody

[Mistered]

The blood alcohol test results have not been made public.

Pretty much answers it for me. If it HAD of been negative they would have already said that.
Let see, 29 YOA, an FBI agent (with a possible 'attitude'), dancing in a bar at 12:30 AM and there is a question about him drinking?
IF a report comes back NEGATIVE I will NOT believe it and will consider it a fabrication.

 

[brjr51]

Several years ago, a smaller suburban town near me had a young officer about the same age as this fellow who was one of the areas top DUI nabbers. Received several accolades from the department, MADD and other groups. Guess who got in a fender bender one night and was arrested for DUI? Quick end to a career.

 

[venomballistics]

And there we have it. The inherent distrust of Glocks due to a complete misunderstanding of the operating system. He pressed the trigger. No other way that pistol can fire . . .

As I understand the system, since the firing pin block must travel upward and those pesky laws of physics that dictate how matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time, this would be an accurate statement.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc[/ame]

 

[mg357]

Since he was off duty at the time why didn't he carry his pistol on Condition 3 full magazine empty chamber.

If he was sudden called back on duty he could run into the men's bathroom find an empty bathroom stall.

Run the slide which would chamber a round reholster and then go to work.

 

[susieqz]

.
i see a lack of training here, for which the fbi is liable.
if i dropped a gun, no matter how much i had been drinking, there is no possibility that my finger would touch the trigger while picking it up.
i bet most people here can say the same thing.

 

[venomballistics]

.
i see a lack of training here, for which the fbi is liable.
if i dropped a gun, no matter how much i had been drinking, there is no possibility that my finger would touch the trigger while picking it up.
i bet most people here can say the same thing.

this guy was hired out of the military, where he'd have been trained as well.
this is more a case of you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
they have lead this twirp to knowledge, but they could not make him think

 

[nachogrande]

NEVER SAY NEVER.

.
i see a lack of training here, for which the fbi is liable.
if i dropped a gun, no matter how much i had been drinking, there is no possibility that my finger would touch the trigger while picking it up.
i bet most people here can say the same thing.

I would say, IF he graduated from Quantico, he had some good training. You can't train out a split second (or more) of stupidity/lapse of judgement. I do NOT SEE any malicious intent or premeditation. Whether alcohol played a part, I'll wait for the lab reports & being in Co, I'd suspect they just might be testing for other substances as well. I'm no Atty, but this appears to be a civil/negligence slam dunk, dream come true case.

 

[venomballistics]

Since he was off duty at the time why didn't he carry his pistol on Condition 3 full magazine empty chamber.

If he was sudden called back on duty he could run into the men's bathroom find an empty bathroom stall.

Run the slide which would chamber a round reholster and then go to work.

because an empty chamber is a forfeit in a gunfight.
The time it takes to rack a slide is fairly close to the time spent on a Mozambique drill.
If you are racking while your opponent is squeezing, then you are getting shot an killed.
You dont get to choose this grim situation, your adversary does. Your adversary does not care if your on or off the clock

 

[RGVshooter]

One of the safety rules during our USPSA/IDPA matches is a dropped loaded firearm is a automatic DQ but more importantly we stress the importance of only the RO picks up a dropped firearm. We don't want 3-4 guys all at the same time fumbling for it. We don't want the competitor in his rush to go pick it up & risk a ND. This is clearly a lack of training & discipline on the agents part but what's more concerning is the lack of judgment in doing a backflip with a loaded holstered weapon. yes, the guy at the very least deserves to be fired and is to be held accountable for the ND.

 

[nachogrande]

DROPPED GUN, AUTOMATIC DQ. (HERE)

Loaded OR NOT, it doesn't matter.

 

[Jack Flash]

Comments regarding the Glock firing without the trigger being pressed because of damage sustained when it hit the floor:

No need to speculate about this, simply have the FBI armorer test it. He may want to start out loading it with dummy rounds then vibrating, jarring, bumping, ... it to see if the striker hits the "cartridge". If it passes that test, then try it with live ammunition at the range, disassemble it, whatever else it takes to see if it is damaged or functions properly.

No need to guess what the problem could maybe might be.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Well, he may, but he won't, since that's not how you function check a Glock . . .

No need to speculate about this, simply have the FBI armorer test it. He may want to start out loading it with dummy rounds then vibrating, jarring, bumping, ... it to see if the striker hits the "cartridge". If it passes that test, then try it with live ammunition at the range, disassemble it, whatever else it takes to see if it is damaged or functions properly.

No need to guess what the problem could maybe might be.

 

[sar4937]

The news I read was he was not from Colorado, but operating out of DC. I wonder if he was visiting Colorado, or on assignment. Could be why facts aren't being released?

 

[kwselke]

Since he was off duty at the time why didn't he carry his pistol on Condition 3 full magazine empty chamber.

If he was sudden called back on duty he could run into the men's bathroom find an empty bathroom stall.

Run the slide which would chamber a round reholster and then go to work.

He could have picked up the Glock without sticking his finger in the trigger guard too.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, I've defended kids(read: LEO's) like this. #1 he shouldn't be an FBI agent. #2 he shouldn't go to jail. #3 He should be able to plea to a deferred sentence such that he might one day get the felony purges from his record. This was a stupid avoidable accident-period. He needs consequences but it should not destroy the rest of his life. Look at Bill Jordan.

 

[NYlakesider]

One of the headlines this morning,

"Dancing FBI agent wants to meet man he allegedly shot."


All are innocent, till proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of one's peers.....


The defendant probably won't be able play 'there was a second shooter' card as a defense....


Judge might sentence him to 10 years and a day...…….of Jittterbug dance lessons.


Anyways, hope the guy that caught that bullet has a complete recovery.


.

If I was that shot man I would want assurances that dance man was not packing anything more deadly than a rubber ducky!

 

[Muss Muggins]

According to his bio, the agent's attorney, a former prosecutor, specializes in representing public safety employees. Probably retained by Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association (FLEOA) . . .

DAVID M. GODDARD

 

[Muss Muggins]

Since he probably wasn't acting within the scope of his duties, a lawsuit against the FBI won't get past the filing stage. As for suing the agent, you'll get a quick policy limit settlement from his e&o /umbrella policy carrier . . .

You and me both............


The agent wanting to talk to the injured witness.....smells like...like a lit'l witness tampering, eh?


I'd need some serious comp on that bullet hole. (Cause I believe it'll all be worked out in the end...in civil court)


All med bills for life and a monthly check equal to the agent his pay grade or above...that shot me while he was while dancing the 'jig of fools'.


Oh, and the legal transfer of that FBI S&W Reg. Mag. No.1




.

 

[Walkingwolf]

His authority to carry was directly related to his employment as an FBI agent. LEO including FBI are on duty 24 hours a day, authority, and responsibility do not stop after the clock. Same goes for supervisors that is why when government servants make dumb comments on the internet they get punished, or fired. The issue of his unsafe handling of a firearm will come back to his training in court.

 

[keith44spl]

Since he probably wasn't acting within the scope of his duties, a lawsuit against the FBI won't get past the filing stage. As for suing the agent, you'll get a quick policy limit settlement from his e&o /umbrella policy carrier . . .

Ah, ya know ya gotta aim for the stars.....If ya get any distance outta a glock shot!!!






.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Nope. Not within the scope of his official duty . . .

His authority to carry was directly related to his employment as an FBI agent. LEO including FBI are on duty 24 hours a day, authority, and responsibility do not stop after the clock. Same goes for supervisors that is why when government servants make dumb comments on the internet they get punished, or fired. The issue of his unsafe handling of a firearm will come back to his training in court.

 

[Walkingwolf]

He was only permitted to carry a firearm concealed within his official capacity/duty. If not all LEO's would have to obtain concealed carry permits. But when it boils down to it, it all depends on how the jury votes, and I know which way I would vote. The FBI holds responsibility for how their agents present themselves 24 hours a day. I have no doubt there were warning signs in his work that he was an unsafe.

Nothing will change my opinion on this reckless agent, so we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[keith44spl]

This agent is not the first LEO to get caught on a cell phone camera
doing something he should have not been doing.


This agent is not the first LEO to accidently shoot a bystander.

I think it was his back flip that caused all this commotion.


If he had jest left that out of his dance routine.


We all would be discussing bear vs alligator guns.....




.

 

[sigp220.45]

Nope. Not within the scope of his official duty . . .

This is correct. The Bu will find he was acting outside the scope of his employment (he was on leave from the Washington Field Office). They can produce copious proof he was trained not to pick up his Glock by the trigger. As strange as it sounds, if he was carrying in a non-approved holster they can "outside the scope" him for that. I've seen them jam people for good shootings because of a non-approved holster.

The Bu may still offer a new-truck-sized payment to make this go away. If the shot guy wants to slug it out in court it will be for whatever a newbie FBI agent (soon to be ex-agent) has in his pockets.

This young Army veteran, Jerry Fallwell University graduate, dancing machine is well and truly hosed. He did something stupid while working for an agency that people love to hate, and will pay for it.

When I started with the Bu in 1991, my training agent told me "it's a one-mistake Bureau".

I'm glad I've never done anything stupid.

 

[Muss Muggins]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. I agree that he was reckless, but there's been no mention as to whether or not that was even a government pistol. Many officers obtain CCW permits to carry beyond the scope of official duties. We had to before LEOSA. As an example, short of the negligent discharge, everything else that occurred in that bar is perfectly legal in Missouri. I know what you would like the law to be, but that's simply not the case. As for being on a jury, you take an oath to follow the instructions and the law that the Judge gives you. When that doesn't happen, we have anarchy . . .

He was only permitted to carry a firearm concealed within his official capacity/duty. If not all LEO's would have to obtain concealed carry permits. But when it boils down to it, it all depends on how the jury votes, and I know which way I would vote. The FBI holds responsibility for how their agents present themselves 24 hours a day. I have no doubt there were warning signs in his work that he was an unsafe.

Nothing will change my opinion on this reckless agent, so we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[jimbo728]

At least he can jump. Maybe Star Search is in his future.
Jim

 

[Walkingwolf]

He was not in Mo he was in Denver, a completely different demographic, and different laws. Denver on top is a very anti gun city, any lawsuit will be in that jurisdiction. The judges, juries, will have a different perspective than they would in Mo.

There was no mention of him having a concealed permit, and if he was in fact drinking it was illegal in Co. Not sure if it was his or FBI issue firearm but it certainly looked like a Glock 19 standard issue for FBI. I don't think it matters whether it was his gun or the FBI's, the FACT is he was carrying under FBI authority as a special agent.

IIRC LEOSA the carrier must obey ALL local, and state laws.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Duly noted . . .

(and you need to read up on LEOSA)

He was not in Mo he was in Denver, a completely different demographic, and different laws. Denver on top is a very anti gun city, any lawsuit will be in that jurisdiction. The judges, juries, will have a different perspective than they would in Mo.

There was no mention of him having a concealed permit, and if he was in fact drinking it was illegal in Co. Not sure if it was his or FBI issue firearm but it certainly looked like a Glock 19 standard issue for FBI. I don't think it matters whether it was his gun or the FBI's, the FACT is he was carrying under FBI authority as a special agent.

IIRC LEOSA the carrier must obey ALL local, and state laws.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Duly noted . . .

(and you need to read up on LEOSA)

If there is something in LEOSA that relates to this incident then please cite. The very fact he was arrested would indicate that LEOSA does not excuse breaking the law.

 

[sigp220.45]

Its not illegal to carry a gun in a bar in Colorado. Being "under the influence" of either alcohol or weed while armed is a misdemeanor. The magic number when driving is .08, like most other places. The statute for being armed under the influence doesn't provide a BAC level.

I don't think anyone here has seen SA Bishop's BAC. As a recently retired Denver SA, I can say I've been to quite a few after work events, attended by bosses, where agents had a drink while armed. Never saw any backflips, though.

He was charged with assault, not being drunk and armed.