Dead end handguns designs

[balin]

The Matebe would seem to qualify.

 

[LVSteve]

Ian from Forgotten Weapons just uploaded a video about the CZ100 and CZ101. I'd suggest they ended up in tha Failed department bin.

What killed the CZ100 was its long and gritty DAO trigger and the US fed myth that anything that looks like a semi auto must have a short reset. If can't get past full-stroke DAO in a square gun (and many can't, trust me), you're never going to like it. The Sig P250 pistols have been similarly unpopular for that reason, but at least Sig gives you a smooth pull straight from the box.

Many who own the CZ100 say that once they fluff and buff the right places, the trigger is smooth and that makes the gun much nicer to shoot.

 

[dsf]

I think the original Remington 51 pistol would be a candidate. I don't own one, but own two others that may qualify.

The Sardius SD-9

The gun uses a long trigger pull to fully compress a firing pin spring & striker from a fully at rest position. The barrel is fixed to the frame by a drift removable takedown pin. The slide is hollow. The firing pin, extractor & other parts are housed in a separate unit of what would commonly be the breech block of the slide.


The HK VP70 uses the same trigger design - larger scale.

Not 100% sure, but I think the VP70 was the first poly framed pistol and predated the Glock by quite a few years.

 

[Benton Quest]

The Colt 2000, what I consider to be the Pontiac Aztec of handguns, always amazed me.

There were meetings around tables. PowerPoint presentations were made. Donuts were eaten. Coffee was drank.

And at the end of what I am sure were several similar meetings, a bunch of people that should have known better, voted to go forth with that firearm.

This was Colt. Not some whacky eccentric nut job that thought they had a good idea promulgated in their garage, but Colt for crying out loud.

Colt. How could you?

And...the Colt Double Eagle...the horror. The horror.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

 

[S-W4EVER]

You are thinking of the Model 547...

I wish I would have bought one when they were affordable. I doubt that I would have damaged any extractors. 9mm ammo is a lot more affordable than .38 Special these days.

 

[.357magger]

The doublestack mag goes back at least to the Savage 1907 of "Ten shots quick" fame.

It also holds title, IIRC, to first striker fired handgun.

So much for Glock innovation.

 

[s&wchad]

The HK VP70 uses the same trigger design - larger scale.

Not 100% sure, but I think the VP70 was the first poly framed pistol and predated the Glock by quite a few years.

I think you're correct. I had one of those for a while. It held 20 rounds and had an odd front sight (really wide, with a deep sighting groove down the center). It had the worst trigger pull I've ever encountered and was probably over 20 lbs. Emptying a full magazine was a grueling experience.

I read that they were originally designed to take a shoulder stock with a selector that allowed it to fire 3 round bursts. You could see the phantom outline of the stock attachment holes on the back of the grip, where they altered the mold. I've never regretted trading it off.

 

[Tom K]

Walther also copied the P7 gas system in their CCP pistol.

Rogak copied the Steyr GB gas system and screwed it up, and there hasn't been another GB style pistol since AFAIK. The GB was also different in that the frame was made of two steel pressings welded together. I don't know of anyone else building a pistol that way.

The Ruger .22 auto grip frame is made from two sheet metal stampings welded together, one of the innovations that enabled Bill Ruger to sell the gun so cheaply in the beginning. Probably also why one engineer that I worked with back in the late '80s sneered and called the gun, "cheap junk", since it wasn't made from a machined forging.

Merwin-Hulbert comes to mind as an innovative, but dead-end design.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Had an H&K P7 eons ago. It was neat. Heavy for a single stack. Worked extremely well, but would heat up if you were doing mag dumps. Never understood why it cost so much. The mechanism isn't all that complex.

Here's what Heckler and Koch said about pricing - FYI.

John

 

[hkcavalier]

I had a CZ-52 for a while. Pretty sure it was a dead end, and a pain to disassemble too. Roller lockers are stupid strong and have a harsh recoil impulse; the former isn't necessary on the majority of handguns and the latter is never a requirement. I hear CZ made some better designs later

 

[Nomadmax]

Rhino revolver

 

[Farmer17]

When HK P7s first came out I shot one and was immediately impressed and thought that would be the way many pistols would be built in the future. The gun is perfectly safe then you squeeze the grip and have a great trigger pull and with a fixed barrel you have excellent accuracy. It was very simple but I heard that law enforcement had a lot of accidental discharges which seems very odd to me. I wonder if someone made a polymer framed version that was much less expensive, if the design would have success?

 

[pantannojack]

How about the one Robert Culp had made for Raquel Welch in film "Hannie Calder" the middle finger pulled a ring trigger to cock the single action and the first finger was used to fire. Could that be called a "Squeeze Cock"?

Please, OP, what is a (JMB)?

I saw a pic of a revolver with sliding bbl assembly which would rotate the cylinder under recoil and progress the action.

 

[Yaworski]

Please, OP, what is a (JMB)?

JMB (blessed be) refers to the prophet, John Moses Browning (may peace be upon him)

 

[Yaworski]

The Colt 2000,

They rushed it to market before all the problems were shaken out. I'm sure that Reed Knight and Gene Stoner could have worked out the problems.

 

[DWalt]

I saw a pic of a revolver with sliding bbl assembly which would rotate the cylinder under recoil and progress the action.

That would probably be the famous British Webley-Fosbery Automatic revolver. There was a similar American revolver called the Union. Indeed they were dead ends.

 

[LVSteve]

Benelli B-76. Fixed barrel design with a separate bolt that used a toggle link. I've always wanted one. I've seen exactly one in the wild.

Honorably mention to the Remington R51. Yes, the first gens were a train wreck but the second gen guns actually work. I have one and am perfectly satisfied with it.

I was offered a Benelli B-76 right when I was buying a house, so I had to turn it down.

I also have a Gen2 R51. I think the mag legs need trimming a touch, but mine has not been the jammomatic that the first ones were. Mind you, I find the recoil impulse with 124gr ammo goes straight into my wrist bones, probably because of that low bore axis and unique action.

 

[Yaworski]

I saw a pic of a revolver with sliding bbl assembly which would rotate the cylinder under recoil and progress the action.

Sean Connery used one in the historical document, "Zardoz."

 

[DWalt]

I was offered a Benelli B-76 right when I was buying a house, so I had to turn it down.

I also have a Gen2 R51. I think the mag legs need trimming a touch, but mine has not been the jammomatic that the first ones were. Mind you, I find the recoil impulse with 124gr ammo goes straight into my wrist bones, probably because of that low bore axis and unique action.

The R51 was a fairly close copy of the original Remington Model 51 made in .32 and .380, but in 9mm. I have a friend who bought an R51 which I fired. I had no problems with it, but I found that disassembly and re-assembly were quite difficult, much more so than the original Remington 51 (I own three of those). I almost bought an R51 but the seller and I couldn’t reach an agreement on the price. We actually did reach a price, but the seller had second thoughts and reneged on it and I walked away.

 

[kraynky]

I'll admit to not having read all of the posts in this thread, so it may have already been mentioned. How about S&W's own "Lemon Squeezer"? (or New Departure)

My "gunshop guy" called me about one that had just arrived in their shop a few years ago. I was a few hours away from getting off work and he wasn't allowed to "stash" it aside as it was a new item for them.

It was gone before I even got to look at it. Not sure I would have been interested anyway, but I've always wanted to fondle one of them.