Dealey Plaza

[Comrad]

I've been to Dealey Plaza many times and up on the Sixth floor and there are many things that bother me regarding the Warren Commission findings. One is the idea that eye witnesses could have given a description of the shooter in the 6th floor window. At best all you would have seen would be the barrel of the rifle and a pile of boxes. The administration, LBJ, Hoover, et al who needed the case solved and closed.
Ever wonder why is it no political assassinations are ever black and white?
JFK a mess, MLK a mess, RFK a mess, even going back to Lincoln.
There's a reason, just saying.

 

[vito]

When I had the opportunity to visit this location several years ago my initial thought was exactly the same as many have expressed on this thread, that the area is much smaller than I expected it to be and that the shots achieved were easily do-able by a reasonably skilled shooter. Remember that Oswald was a former Marine who had at least achieved acceptable shooting skills in that role.

I will not comment on all of the conspiracy theories but I do think that the reason that they will never go away is the very unpleasant thought that one individual loser could so easily change history. It is somehow reassuring to imagine that this assassination was the work of a group of skilled assassins rather than just this one possibly deranged person.

 

[Comrad]

I can't wait till 2017. According to the Kennedy Act, all records in the Kennedy Collection will be opened by 2017 unless certified as justifiably closed by the President of the United States.
Now if Hillary decides not to release them, then we will really have some conspiracy theories to kick around.

 

[Henry O]

Looking beyond the shots

Somewhere in the last couple of years I read references to locations of the Secret Service agents at the time of the shooting. "Where" did not get my attention as much as "how many."

Apparently there were very few because the perceived threat to a President, any President, at the time was not viewed the same way as it is today.

Would it have made a difference? Imagine everyone has an opinion on that. However, things did change after November, 1963 with regards to Presidential protection.

Seriously doubt if that Book Depository would have even been accessible in today's world.

 

[wuluf]

The only reason I question conspiracy theories is government. It would have required competence, secrecy, timing, accuracy and close-mouthed -ness for 50 years. I do not believe government is capable of these things, and I present the last 50 years of government programs as evidence...

 

[bobcat]

I'm in the Oswald did it camp. I also was in Dealey Plaza several years ago, and like everyone else, I was struck by how small the area was. I agree that any semi skilled rifleman could have made the shots. We forget the politics of the time and what a whack job Oswald really was. I'm working my way through "Reclaiming History" by VINCENT BUGLIOSI right now, and believe that he has pretty well nailed it. I think folks get too wrapped up in the conspiracy theories, sometimes the mighty really are brought down by a lone nut job.

 

[Gyrene6891]

There is an old that the only way for two people to keep a secret is for one of them to be dead. An event as big a killing a sitting President is something that cannot be kept secret. Criminals want to be know for what they did, especially when executing larger than life events. I believe if there had been more people involved someone would have slipped up and let out that information by now. JMHO

 

[Comrad]

Manhattan project, stealth bomber, nuclear subs, "stuff" under development right now out in the desert, trust me our Uncle Sam knows how to keep a secret when he really wants to.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

"Three make keep a secret if two of them are dead." Ben Franklin
I am skeptical that LHO did it, I recall at the time it was reported that he was this incredible crack shot, subsequently it was shown he was OK, nothing more. He was silenced before he could be properly questioned or allowed to speak, whether Ruby was part of it....we'll only find out on Judgement Day. Having learned something about firearms I consider the Carcano a poor choice, IIRC Remington and Winchester were in business in 1963.
And there was all that quacking about Dallas being full of (right wing) hate-then it was a Leftie who apparently did it.

 

[vito]

So which is it? You start by saying you don't believe Oswald did it, then end your comment saying a leftie did it (I assume here you are also referring to Oswald). He couldn't have done it and not done it at the same time.

There was a lot of dislike of Kennedy in Texas at the time of his assassination, and just as they do now, the media is quick to blame all such violence on sinister right wing forces. When it turns out it was someone with leftist leanings, the media stops looking at political motivations and focuses on the shooter being mentally ill.

 

[R.A. Rifleman]

I would like to offer a thought for anyone thinking Oswald could or could not have made the shot. Given that he's dead, there really is no way of proving that he intentionally hit JFK. He definitely meant to, but that does mean he actually managed to hit him on purpose. He may have just been one lucky ***. Or JFK had no luck at all.

 

[reddogge]

"Three make keep a secret if two of them are dead." Ben Franklin
I am skeptical that LHO did it, I recall at the time it was reported that he was this incredible crack shot, subsequently it was shown he was OK, nothing more. He was silenced before he could be properly questioned or allowed to speak, whether Ruby was part of it....we'll only find out on Judgement Day. Having learned something about firearms I consider the Carcano a poor choice, IIRC Remington and Winchester were in business in 1963.
And there was all that quacking about Dallas being full of (right wing) hate-then it was a Leftie who apparently did it.

There is nothing wrong about a Carcano's accuracy. Plenty accurate for a former MARINE to hit something with at those close yardages. And a mil-surp Carcano was a fraction of the cost of a Remington or Winchester rifle and scope and Oswald didn't have a pot to p&% in as far as money.

 

[Ranger514]

Once in awhile the simple explanation is the truth.

"Conspiracy", in the case of both Kennedys I think it's more likely "Karma".

So you're saying both Kennedy brothers deserved to be murdered? Congratulations! That's insulting, asinine, and unworthy of being posted on this forum.

 

[steveno]

One thing I would like to have seen happen was to take the rifle to the range and see where it hit on paper at 100 yards. if it hit within a couple of inches of point of aim at 100 then there is a chance Oswald did it. if it hit over a foot away from point of aim then he at least didn't fire the killing shots.

 

[Comrad]

One thing I would like to have seen happen was to take the rifle to the range and see where it hit on paper at 100 yards. if it hit within a couple of inches of point of aim at 100 then there is a chance Oswald did it. if it hit over a foot away from point of aim then he at least didn't fire the killing shots.

You raise an interesting possibility. Any evidence Oswald spent any time sighting in his rifle? Any trips to the range? He had no car so getting around with a rifle would have been noticed. His first three shots were "perfect"?? 2 out of 3 that is. Elevation windage, moving car, nervous shooter, shooting down hill would change things too I would think. I'm sorry but just because it is theoretically possible I have a real hard time believing he hit his target at all let alone twice. I'm thinking that military surplus rifle was beat and that's why it was surplus, really how good could it have been. He may have been a great shot but would you hand a sniper a rifle like that and expect that kind of accuracy?

 

[browningcollector]

LHO, I don't think so

Looking at the Zapruder film frame by frame, the shot that takes off the back of Kennedy's head did not come from behind. I believe LHO hit Kennedy and the governor, but the killing shot had to come from the front to move Kennedy's head up and back. Jackie was on the trunk of the limo picking up tissue, no way that shot came from behind, the governor would have been splatter with tissue.

My opinion and LHO was correct, he was just a patsy.

Kelly

 

[PA Reb]

I worked in Dallas TX last week and had time to visit Dealey plaza. The area of Dealey plaza is small and very ordinary looking.

My first impression was how easy it would be to make those three shots. The distance at the last shot was only about 80 yards by my estimation, from a window six stories up.

My second impression was how such a small, unremarkable and nondescript area as this, and how a seemingly-insignificant loser like Oswald could have so seriously affected US and world history.

There was a witness who was standing directly in front of the window from which Oswald fired. He gave an accurate description, and the police sent out an APB immediately.

I have read pretty much all the conspiracy theories, and none have convinced me of their veracity. This happened 50 years ago, and in all that time no conspirator ever came forward (on his death bed or otherwise) with any credible evidence to make me believe there was anyone besides Oswald involved. There is an old saying that goes, "If you have an open mind be careful that it does not get opened so far your brains fall out".

Dealey plaza is now a historical landmark, and is preserved. Everything has stayed the same as it was except for a very few small details, and there are plans to restore these to how they looked in 1963. The city of Dallas has grown up around the area, but the plaza remains as it was, and looks out of place. I think trees were there in 1963, but I don't know if the trees there now were there at the time of the murder.

Shouldn't that read "from which someone fired"? And how would anyone be able to give an "accurate description" of a person in a darkened room, crouched down behind a pile of boxes and six stories above the ground? If someone if fact did say that, I would be very suspicious of how they actually got information like that. There is a video that was taken facing the front of that building showing the rear of the limo making the left hand turn onto Elm. This film has been cleaned up and digitally remastered. In it, one can see the hint of a barrel sticking out the window and there is now way in this world that a person's face can be seen. I've also read accounts where people said there was a shooter in "Oswald's" window as well as another in the window at the other end of the same floor.

"....and in all that time no conspirator ever came forward (on his death bed or otherwise) with any credible evidence to make me believe there was anyone besides Oswald involved." To that I would say "can you blame them?"

I don't disagree that Oswald may have been shooting from that window but I contend, as does 3/4s of the American public, that there was more than one active shooter that day in Dealey Plaza. Oswald may or may not have been a good shot with a rifle but he also seems to have been somewhat of a dimwit and easily manipulated. Believe what you wish but in my opinion, my brains are still intact and the pros that did this pulled of the biggest scam this nation or world has ever seen.

 

[DeathGrip]

The only thing I know about the assassination is that Kennedy must have made somebody really mad at him and that Anna Nicole married for love.

Comunizm, Castro or the Mob but it weren't Anna Nicole.

Maybe someone who she wanted to be.

 

[loknload]

Again I suggest anyone with true interest read this book,,,Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK. Howard Donahue went into this investigation to prove the Warren Commission report correct and found to many inconsistencies. . which led him to investigate deeper. Yes Lee Harvey was the original assassin and only one of his bullets hit Kennedy which probably would have proven fatal in the end,,,, the bullet that killed Kennedy was an accidental discharge from the backup SS car.
Like I said in my earlier post I have read many theories on this and never believed the conspiracy theories but I always believed there was much more to the story, and to me after reading this it makes absolute sense and he has the information and evidence to back it. Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But then again will we ever believe the real truth should it ever be presented ? But then again do we really want the truth?

For me this would be the simple truth of what really happened that day and it just makes to much logical sense.


How_often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?'
Sherlock Holmes

 

[armenius]

People have done some talking on death beds etc. In recent years.Read The Man Who Killed Kennedy-The Case against LBJ for some information not previously widely discussed.