Dealing With the Wind

[doc540]

Any tips?

Shooting a Savage M12, 1/9 twist, 26" barrel.

.223

 

[Fkimble]

With the 9 twist, 68/69 grain bullets will probably be your best bet to fight the wind. Heavies do better in the wind. Faster the better but an accurate load is best. Just get out there and shoot (with a good zero) and see what the wind does to the group. 90 degree wind will do the most, as the angle decreases so does the pushing on the bullet. Watch the mirage, what the foliage, tie a couple wind flags out on your range. Sit at the bench and observe with your spotting scope if you have one. Watch your indicators, you will see patterns develope, pickups, letoffs, complete stops and reversals. Several good tutorials on the internet. Start shooting hi-power and you can get some excellent coaching.

 

[s&wchad]

Nice group!

As a general rule within hunting ranges (<500 yards), I usually figure one inch, per 100 yards, per 10 MPH wind. Under your conditions, I doubt you have a consistent wind speed from muzzle to target.

If you want to improve your scores in windy conditions, get an anemometer, do lots of shooting and record the data and results. Wind makes long distance shooting very difficult.

 

[Rule3]

Find a fellow shooter from Kentucky. They know Kentucky Windage

As Chad mention,probably need to make a chart to determine how much adjustment per 10 MPH. There probably is one already but so many factors to calculate. Kinda like with Mil Dots and adjusting for bullet drop, Gets too confusing for me. I just wing it.

 

[doc540]

What confuses me most is how the wind seems to swirl at our range and not blow consistently from one direction.

I forgot my orange "deer" tape today, so I tied a thin, plastic bag on my 200yd target stand and waited to shoot when it wasn't flapping.

Even then, can't the wind be still near the target and also be whipping across my muzzle somewhere within the 200 yds.

 

[fredj338]

Nice group!

As a general rule within hunting ranges (<500 yards), I usually figure one inch, per 100 yards, per 10 MPH wind. Under your conditions, I doubt you have a consistent wind speed from muzzle to target.
.

Not even close for rounds like the 223. The 68-69gr bullets will drift 9"+ @ 300yds in a 10mph/3-9 wind. Forget 400yds If you are trying to shoot good groups, shoot early or late & don't fight the wind. Wind flags are great, but you need them every 100yds, then shoot when there is a lull.

 

[David Sinko]

I shoot out to 300 yards at one of my ranges. One day a guy comes out and drops a couple of flags at various intervals out to 200 yards. I was amazed to see that within that 200 yard distance there were flags blown horizontal from both the east and west. It's clear to me that if you want to really understand the wind you have to literally live on a rifle range to gain the experience. Having free ammo helps too.

Dave Sinko

 

[Nevada Ed]

Wind is just something thats adds a little "Spice" to the shooting games.
It can be light ,medium, heavy,gusty and at all angles from
the back,head on or full right angles ..........but it is a easy
thing to "Dope" with time in the field and lots of practice and
NOTES !!
Light fast bullets will work but the seasoned shooter usually will go to the heavier bullets to buck the wind but it depends on the conditions and range to the targets,since fast is not always the best,when it comes to accuracy.
As mentioned, a "Spotter" or second party, sure is nice to have to get er done.....

Good shooting.

 

[358156hp]

Try setting up wind flags every 25 yards or so. You will be astonished at the winds behavior down range. Plain old lightweight plastic strips will do to get started. You may want to invest in some serious equipment for learning to read the wind. The benchrest guys seem to have the best toys for doping the wind.

 

[Rule3]

"The answer my friend is blowin in the wind"..............

Sorry just had to.

 

[Forrest r]

It looks like you have a good start with a decent load & those Savages are hard to beat.

If you really want to know what’s going on with your rifle/bullet/wind combo, you need to chronograph your load to find out the speed of the bullet. Take the speed & bc and plug them into a ballistics calculator to get your drops & wind drift. You will need to put in all the different numbers of the clock to get the true wind drifts. (1 o-clock, 2 o-clock, 3 o-clock, etc.).

Now that you have your cheat sheet (dope) you should buy a notebook & keep a shooting log. List the date, load, conditions (sun, wind, temp, time of day). This will give you the data you need to pick out any tendencies you have with different wind conditions, the sun’s position or any temp sensitivity with the load/rifle.

A couple random thought:

The target you use is extremely important & should be the same sight picture (scope lines) for all the targets. They should also have a grid on them so that you can accurately measure (digital cameras are a beautiful thing for a computer log book) what you shot.

Bullets/loads: Try to find a bullet with the largest bc for your weight of twist. I was able to use/shoot the 75gr a-max bullets in a Savage & Bushmaster AR that both had a 1 in 9 twist. Establish 1 load & stick with it. Thru testing/shooting you will be able to establish a “cone of fire”. A cone of fire is important to know because it will tell you if it’s the rifle or the shooter. IE, if the shooter has ½” groups @ 100yds and 2” groups @ 200yds, the cone of fire is a 4 to 1 ratio & the rifle should be able to shoot 8” groups @ 300yds, 16” groups @ 400yds, etc. If the groups are smaller than 16” @ 400yds you will know you had a problem at the 200yd line. That’s why it pays to keep a log book, after a while you will be able to establish a cone of fire & identify/hone your wind drift, range condition reading skills.

Good glass: It’s imperative to have & use good glass for a scope or spotting scope. You want to be able to clearly see the target & you should use the correct target for you scopes reticle. Hunting scopes have thick crosshairs & will cover a target’s center. Target scopes have thin crosshairs and/or target dots and are designed for just that, target shooting. Mil-dot scopes are a cross between the 2 and in general, don’t make the best target scopes. You want a good quality glass with a high magnification that will be able to clearly see/read the mirage & target.

The wind: Reading the wind is the most difficult part of marksmanship but it’s also the most rewarding. Pay more attention to what the wind is doing close to you & ½ way to the target. Watch the grass, leaves, anything close to you. Do the same thing for the mid-target distances along with the mirage. The wind will have more effect on bullet @ 50yds & 100yds on a bullet traveling 200yds than the wind @ 150yds & 175yds. The “mirage” is a shooters best friend, it will show the shooter the true wind direction & speed. In most conditions the mirage can only be seen in 15mph winds with good glass & 8mph to 12mph with the naked eye. That’s why sometimes you can see the mirage far away & not close until you look thru a scope. Trust the mirage, study it to learn the wind speeds/direction for your eye & you will master the wind.

I used to use/shoot with Leupold scopes & have switched over to Sightrons. The Sightrons seem to be able to pick up the mirage in a wider verity of weather conditions along with the different brightness of the sun/cloud conditions. I live in the Ohio valley area & the average day is cloudy. It’s normal to have a range day when I shoot 50 shots & they were shot in a mix of direct sun, partial sun & full cloud cover. These are what I use on my sporter rifles.

It would a good thing to pick up a range book such as Jim Owens book. Jim’s book is inexpensive, has a lot of useful info & will point you in the right direction on how to make/create your own log book.

 

[doc540]

Try setting up wind flags every 25 yards or so. You will be astonished at the winds behavior down range. Plain old lightweight plastic strips will do to get started. You may want to invest in some serious equipment for learning to read the wind. The benchrest guys seem to have the best toys for doping the wind.

True

I try to shoot next to them when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Hornady has a free ballistic calculator on their web site. Someone already mentioned 90 degree cross wind. Wind in line with you; 0 degree cross wind effects the bullet also. Wind from behind you (tail wind) causes the bullet to hit higher and wind into your face (head wind) causes the bullet to hit lower. Then it gets tricky, say a wind from 1 o'clock (30 degrees right) will push the bullet a little left and down. I use Serria's ballistic calculator (computer program) to get me prepared for all this. When you start shooting long range (starts around 500 yards) altitude, temperature, and barometric pressure. At around 800 yards the direction of twist in your bore and your shooting direction in relation to the earths rotation all effect the bullet's impact. Velocity and ballistic co-efficient are important at all distances beyond 100 yards. With good equipment, good data, brain power, the rifle you already should do 1/2 to 1 MOA groups to 800 yards, I have a more advanced model Savage 223, that with all the right factors in place shoots 1/2 MOA out to 1000 Yards and a 308 Savage 10 BAS that shoots 1/3 MOA to 1000. There is a lot of good info in these responses, you ought to print these out for future reference. Forrest r's post is fantastic. The only thing I can add to his views on scoes is; For repeatableity you scope/rifle need to be level, that is why you see buble levels on so many of them (I have one you would swear was off 10 degrees to the eye, but with a level I blow up M&M's at 300 repeatedly.) Ivan

 

[Hombre0321]

Wind, Man it's always the wind. I shoot Long Range Benchrest as well as F-Class. Most of my competitions are at 1,000 yds but I also try and get in a few "Mid Range" matches. Mid range is up to 600 yards.

There are dozens of books on wind reading, some very good and some pretty much junk. Some of the things you will need to do is shoot in the wind, shooting on those calm days teaches you nothing about the wind. You will need to learn Mirage it can be ( On some days) the difference between winning or not. mirage is an not an excellent indicater of wind value, but will give you a good indication of direction to a point it will tell you if it is a right wind or left wind. The flags are a much better indicater ot direction if they cooperate, and they don't all of the time. Mireage is an excellent indicater of changes, mirage is an almost instant indicater will the flags take a litle time to show a change.

You also should never ever shoot during a lull in the Flags. Think of the wind as an ocean of air, it comes in waves has increases and decreases and is constantly changing velocity. if the flags fall or are hanging limp this is a indication of a change in progress, by the time they show that change it could have been in effect for some time. The flags are slow to react sometimes.

Also here there was mention of a High BC ( ballistic coefficent) bullet. In long Range shooting this is not an option but a must, however the BC factor does not happen to a bullet until after 350 or 400 yards. Thus the short range benchrest shooters don't even concern themselves with BC and could care less about it. The smallest group ever shot in Point Blank Benchrest ( 100 to 200 Yds) is .252 of an inch, that is taking into account the size of the bullet which in this case was .243 of an inch. Meaning the smallest group ( 5 Shots) was .009 of an inch.

You also need to become a study of the wind. Watch the flags and the mirage and if you are getting a Condition were every thing is stayng the same get your rounds down range as fact as is possible. As an example when shooting a F-Class match at 1,000 yds you have 33 minutes to prepare, shoot an unlimited number of sighters and then your 20 rounds of record. For me a relay is usually with sighters is 28 to 30 rounds of ammo. While you have 33 minutes to do this very good advice is to keep the target in the pits ( F-Class is shot were there is a "PIT" crew usually the other half of the field of competitors who pull your target into the pits after each shot, score it, push in a spotter disc into your last bullet hole and then return the target for your next shot. A good crew does this in about 10 or 12 seconds) To do this you must shoot fast. I shoot those 28 to 30 shots in around 4 1/2 to 5 minutes depending on my pit service. By shooting this fast I can shoot a condition if there is one and try and get all of my shots downrange and not have to deal as much with the changes. Even wityh that there are those twitchy days were you have to go to plan B.

In Long Range Benchrest there is no one pulling your target. You are shooting not for Score but for Group size. A round of fire is either 5 or 10 shots for record per relay. Benchrest shooters get all of there shots down range in 15 seconds or so. Remember all of these rifles are also single shots, even in the rare case when someone shoots a rifle with a Magazine you must single load every bullet.

The world record group at 1,000 yds is 2.815" and that is a ten shot group. Reading the wind is possible and is done all of the time, its not easy, and you need to spend a lot of range time and keep excellent records but it can be done.

Roland

 

[doc540]

Had NO idea, but knew there must be a lot to learn.

I'm a new long gun shooter who's only been reloading rifle rounds for a few months.

But it sure is fun!

 

[LittleCooner]

Hey, we all learn along the way. You had no idea, but you ask for help and there, you got it. The wind is your friend. You just have to learn how to make it your friend. It is always moving, even when you think it's still, that is when you shoot the largest groups. Best groups are in a steady, non changing wind. Make some wind flags. even just a plain plastic stake and surveyors tape will put you a long way down the road. Drop by a Tractor Supply Company store, go to the back and purchase a half dozen of the fiberglass post for electrical fence and a roll of surveyor tape. Put the first flag at about 20 yards from your gun and add at least 3 more for 100 yards and if shooting 200 yards, stick one about 125 and one about 160. you will see that the wind is always changing across the range. Your groups are what we call "weather reports". Bullets moved more with the wind because the speed increased. A very knowledge shooter shooting your gun and load over flages he was familar with would have shot one ragged hole with that load. When you get the vertical out of your load, then its all about reading the flags. You are on the way to impressing your buddies with some one hole groups, just make some flags and use them every time you shoot. I have some mounted at my range that I leave out, just 1/2 inch PVC about 18" long with a piece of surveyors tape on the end and used a T to put the vertical down in a 3/4 inch PVC that I nailed on to a wood post. cost about $ 2-3 for each one and a couple of sticks of PVC made 3 -4.

 

[Hombre0321]

Had NO idea, but knew there must be a lot to learn.

I'm a new long gun shooter who's only been reloading rifle rounds for a few months.

But it sure is fun!

Doc, There was a place in Houston years ago known as the Wharehouse. There were a group of Point Blank benchrest guys who shot there almost every night for quite a few years. This was a working wharehouse but they were able to shoot there at night. They had a clear shooting lane that was 325 yds long, while almost all of there shooting was done at 100 yds. This was a unique place and many improvements in Benchrest shooting came from there research.

Here these shooters could shoot with no wind what so ever, it is said that over the few years that they did this that 11 groups were shot that were unmeasurable or ZERO groups. The interesting thing that came out of this shooting was a question asked of the man who started the shooting there. His name was Virgil King. Many folks had tried to get Virgil to fill in the blanks about shooting there, he never had shared all that was learned until in the only interview he ever gave in 1993 when asked the Question " Virgil is there any one secret you learned?"

His answer was yes there is one secret, Preparation of the brass...

Doc, I tell you this story because you said you were new to reloading. To shoot little groups or big scores in Long Range Shooting, there is a must do. You must learn how to prepare your brass, it is not a simple thing to do. Oh it sounds simple but in truth to succed at Long Range Shooting you must perfect your work in the reloading room.

There arre two places that these matches are won or lost. One is in the reloading room and the other is being able to read the wind. The reloading room is a place were you can "Master" the technique to be a better shooter. The wind thing is another deal all together. You will never Master the wind, no one ever has. But you can get to the point that you can make good wind calls some percentage of the time. However in the end it is always your best guess...

Roland

 

[Engineer1911]

Buy a larger box to hold your ammo. 100 round boxes are good but bulk packed 50 cal ammo cans are the best. That's why it's called a repeater. Keep firing, you will hit the target. That's prairie dog shooter talk, not bench rest shooter.

 

[rasmith3442]

Berger's

You might want to try Berger 70 VLD's. They have a higher BC than other bullets in that range. If your 1/9 will stabilize them, Berger 75 VLD's work also. Lots of good advice from the other posters. Good luck.

S/F, SST,

RAS