Defining a SHTF scenario

[DWalt]

I never did get the gold, silver and cash thing. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't eat it, drink it, cure with it, build with it or shoot it; I ain't trading.

Depends on the nature of the SHTF event. If it happens to be a total economic meltdown, silver and gold, especially coinage, would make most excellent trading material. I have a good friend (who is a very good attorney) who has, at current prices, over a million dollars in gold hidden away for such an emergency. He also has lots of guns. He started accumulating gold around the time of the 2008 financial crisis, and kept going.

 

[Frank46]

Hard part in trading with someone for what he wants in exchange for like a loaf of bread. Our fiat currency won't be worth much if anything at all. If you managed to have a stash of silver dimes,quarters and half dollars and the odd silver dollar. How do you convince someone that the dime you propose to give him is actually worth a buck (hypothetical value) all he sees is a dime. That is the problem in getting people off gov't phoney currency and get started in precious metals. Ammo,powder,lead,pimers will be the new currency along with firearms. Frank

 

[Ziggy2525]

People have short memories. Might be worth looking back to the siege of Sarajevo in 1993 to see how horrific living through an urban SHTF event in a modern city can be.

Try a web search for Selco Begovic. He used to have a blog of his experiences. Think he made it into a book - “The Dark Secrets of SHTF Survival.”

 

[Cellar Hound]

I think it would be important to work as a team with a small group of like-minded people. Pool resources and have a pre-determined strategy for survival and life sustaining elements. This should include water, food, and personal protection.

 

[oddshooter]

great responses.

Some of you are really grasping the concept of general survival in an unknown scenario.
First, figure out what you are planning for?

Water, food, health, and trade items are necessary components.
In Corona 19, I've traded toilet paper for groceries and my neighbor's fruit.

My meds are always problematic. Doctors, insurance companies, and pharmacies all conspire to only allow a max of three months, and no refills until you are within days of the finish of the three months.

The Mormon comment was right on. Those folks have been doing this prep thing for decades and decades. Mormon friends can teach you a lot of tricks.

And lots of you saw the limited value of heavy ammo and firearms as compared to other necessities.
The Iron comment was a beauty for staying in place. Travel will negate most of that value however because of the weight.

The gold and silver trade items have survived the test of time. Trade always moves toward a currency. Even Salt was currency for awhile. People need something they all can have to establish commonality so you can trade with everybody, not just the rare person who has what you want and you have what they want.
Forget paper funny money as that is a promise not to be kept.
I still assert that life straws will be the highest returns for a single trade item.

#24 hit the survival plan square on the target; Cooperate with others. This is done a hell of a lot easier when in Prep stage. An extension of this is to have a plan and a backup plan for meeting, if your family is not together when crisis occurs.

Prescut
Were you preped for Corona19? How about now for the 2nd wave?

 

[BAM-BAM]

We got an election coming in 4 weeks which I don't believe will be pretty...... and without a doubt a second wave ( which they have a better idea of how to treat) which will raise varying issues on local levels.
I have no doubt our Govoner will lock us down... and close things down!

Forget about the gun shops........
I've noticed some store shelves are empty, others have limits of 1-4 items (Paper towels- black beans) at /Aldi's and Shop & Save. Haven't seen Angel Hair pasta (fast cooking time and our family's favorite) at Aldi's in a month....
I don't "prep" as such , but buy stuff we use when it's on sale..... example local Shop&Save has $8.99 Maxwell House Coffee on sale for $5.99...33% off just bought a 6 months supply and saved $30. A can could be worth 2-3 oz of silver to someone needing a caffeine fix ;D

What did you wish you had, or had more of, back in March??????


the time to prepare........ is now. + 90% of the "stuff" I've got I'll use in good times or bad.

Restock and resupply....plan ahead.

 

[DWalt]

The current Covid-19 experience has been an opportunity for thinking about crisis planning, although it could have been much worse. At least where I live, there really hasn't been much of a shortage of most essential items at stores, at least beyond the early weeks of the pandemic declaration. Even paper products (TP and paper towels) have not been in short supply, at least not that I have observed. Nonetheless, we did lay in about a 6-month supply of both, just in case. One thing that worries me a little is pet food scarcity as we have two dogs and three cats. But so far, no shortages (they all eat mainly dry food). I have some silver coinage in reserve, but nothing like a fortune, just several thousand in face value which I've had stashed away for many years. Ammo and reloading components would be adequate for any situation I can foresee as likely. I may lay in more canned goods to the limit of my available storage space, but aside from that, I probably won't add much.

I also have admiration for Mormon preparedness. Some years ago I had a Mormon secretary who was active in the Morman prepping philosophy. The local Mormons would periodically get together and can food, such as rice, sugar, salt, beans, flour, etc., mainly staple items. I they kept a communal food storage location, but I don't really know where they stored what they canned. Can anyone explain how the Mormons handle their food canning and storage?

 

[Ziggy2525]

IMO there are two caregories of SHTF. The first is like Katrina where conditions are bad, but for the most part the rule of law is in place. The second is a wide spread civil war where the rule of law has completely broken down.

In the first case being a prepper with a deep stockpile of goods will probably get you through until things get back to normal(ish).

In the second case, from stuff I’ve read from a couple people that have been through it, there will be roving and pillaging gangs. Life will have no value. No amount of stored goods will be able to hold you over long enough to escape. The only things that will help you are a lot of luck, the determination to never give up no matter how hard it gets, and the willingness to do whatever it takes to survive.

 

[smoothshooter]

I want to stock up on food and ammo. In that situation, what’s gold or silver gonna do for you?

Buy you gasoline, dental work, an electrician to wire a generator into your well, etc.
Bartering ammo or guns for goods and services is risky because someone may use the ammo you just traded to them for some insulin or penicillin to shoot you and your family, then take the rest of your ammo and other goodies after you are dead.

 

[Old Seabee]

SHTF

IMHO I think for a general guide about survival you should read One Second After by William R Forstchen . OldSeabee

 

[DWalt]

Buy you gasoline, dental work, an electrician to wire a generator into your well, etc.
Bartering ammo or guns for goods and services is risky because someone may use the ammo you just traded to them for some insulin or penicillin to shoot you and your family, then take the rest of your ammo and other goodies after you are dead.

I mentioned that possibility earlier, but it could also apply equally to other trade items. Once anyone knows you have a stash of attractive goods, you become a target of opportunity. Best to have an armed guard or two present during the transaction.

 

[Smoke]

First rule of prepping is we don't talk about our preps.

I'm only going to say this back in March I told my wife to make note of the things that she wished we had more of.

As the supply lines have eased up we've made those things a priority. She also talked to her physician and got him to authorize a six month supply of her medications because none of them were narcotics.

The biggest problem we're facing right now you can't prep for. Our state is covered with smoke

 

[UncleEd]

I'm so cute and lovable that others
will be glad to share their essentials
with me.

 

[Bugkiller99]

I'm so cute and lovable that others
will be glad to share their essentials
with me.

Well, then I’m doomed.

 

[mtgianni]

Th
I also have admiration for Mormon preparedness. Some years ago I had a Mormon secretary who was active in the Morman prepping philosophy. The local Mormons would periodically get together and can food, such as rice, sugar, salt, beans, flour, etc., mainly staple items. I they kept a communal food storage location, but I don't really know where they stored what they canned. Can anyone explain how the Mormons handle their food canning and storage?

There used to be canneries that were regional that you signed up to use. Many of them closed in the late 90's or were scaled back. The last time we went in on something they were using Mylar bags, you ordered in what you wanted and when you were going to be there. A group got together bagged and sealed it and you paid for what you used. Individuals stored at home what they used.
I think they have regional warehouses they supple those storehouses from and do disaster aid and assistance. I read a blurb recently on how N Utah had a bad windstorm that knocked down a lot of trees. The Navaho Nation had been hard hit by Covid and relied on wood heavily to heat and cook with. There was a push to cut up the down trees and they were shipped to S Utah, N Arizona to get them wood. I guess green wood is better than none and assume it will dry quickly in an arid environment.
I was living in SE Idaho when the Teton Dam broke and they got food and shelter pretty quickly to those who lost it all, both FEMA and their church.

 

[andy52]

I've never though bugging out would be a good idea. Bugging in with a good defensive plan seems a better way to go for me because I live in a rural area.
1 I have plenty of firearms and ammo.
2 Food to last about 6 months.
3 I have a creek that runs through my property and a water filtration
system.
4 Garden and greenhouse
5 600 gallons of stored tank water, with a 12 volt pumping system and a
solar system that produces 7kw at full capacity.
6 I do have some gold and silver but consider that for more after the
shooting is over.
7 I consider this most important of all, several like minded friends. Lone
wolf tactics will not keep you alive long. Life would probably become
a feudal type system.

 

[Grayfox]

One more item I'd like to add. There's been a lot of talk about possible wide spread rioting and violence after the election next month. While I don't think it'll effect me where I live, it is possible that it could disrupt the normal supply chains for a while.
I normally do my grocery shopping once a month during the first week of the month after I get paid. However, I have decided that November's shopping will be done in the last week of October and I will buy a little more than usual. Ya never know, just being prepared.

 

[ameridaddy]

.... Might be better to hoard bottled bleach which could be used to purify water from whatever questionable sources it can be obtained.

I've found that bottled bleach deteriorates to non-effective after some unknown months, less than a year, just sitting around. I bought pool shock crystals, which are dry and do not deteriorate AFAIK as long as they are dry. You can treat thousands of gallons of water with a ~1-2 qt size container. Read up on how to do it or you could hurt yourself. It's powerful stuff.

 

[ameridaddy]

IMO there are two caregories of SHTF. The first is like Katrina where conditions are bad, but for the most part the rule of law is in place. The second is a wide spread civil war where the rule of law has completely broken down.

In the first case being a prepper with a deep stockpile of goods will probably get you through until things get back to normal(ish).

In the second case, from stuff I’ve read from a couple people that have been through it, there will be roving and pillaging gangs. Life will have no value. No amount of stored goods will be able to hold you over long enough to escape. The only things that will help you are a lot of luck, the determination to never give up no matter how hard it gets, and the willingness to do whatever it takes to survive.

In the second case, you can't stand watch 24/7, so it would be important to have a group of like-minded people at hand to share the duties necessary to get through whatever/whoever comes along.

 

[DWalt]

"I've found that bottled bleach deteriorates to non-effective after some unknown months, less than a year, just sitting around. I bought pool shock crystals, which are dry and do not deteriorate AFAIK as long as they are dry. You can treat thousands of gallons of water with a ~1-2 qt size container. Read up on how to do it or you could hurt yourself. It's powerful stuff."


I did a little research, and the information about the shelf life of liquid laundry bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite) depends on the information source and the storage temperature. Colder is better. Shelf life will be 6 months to one year, with a decline in strength of about 20% per year thereafter. At least that's what professor internet says. If that is true, I'd say that a two year storage of liquid bleach is about the limit. It takes very little liquid bleach to sanitize water, the recommendation is to add 8 drops per gallon. Of course more could be added if using older and weaker bleach. Solid swimming pool sanitizer (Calcium Hypochlorite) would probably have a considerably longer shelf life.

In any event, if one wants to keep a few gallons of liquid bleach in the SHTF locker for emergency water treatment, it should be rotated out with fresh bleach annually. It's almost inconceivable that it would be needed for water sterilization for a time period of more than a year. A little more trouble, but water could also be sterilized by boiling it.

I have read that the early pioneers would keep water sterilized by dropping a silver dollar into the water barrel. Might be true as silver is a strong biocide.

BTW, my second home, which is probably where I would go if I had any advance notice of a SHTF event, is located very close to a heavily flowing natural spring, so there wouldn't be any pure water availability problems there.