DESTROYED MY K38 TODAY/ update #139/ range report post #148

[Photog]

If you had a Garmin Xero, this may have been avoided.

“Seemed hotter” is not a standard unit of measure. A Garmin would have told you exactly what was going on.
If the previous bullet was lodged in the barrel, the Garmin would not have registered a shot, and maybe you would have stopped to investigate.
If the previous round was too hot, the Garmin would have told you and maybe you would have stopped. Maybe all the rounds were hot. No way of knowing.

If you don’t have a chronograph, you don’t have a clue what’s going on. I’ve seen reloading resources state velocities as much as 200 fps lower than what they chronoed.

Garmin are cheap. There’s no reason in the world for not everyone to have one.

Having one, or affording one, IMO, is not the issue. Going out in the boonies to do a bit of plinking, I don't think I want to take a chronograph with me, set it up, take a few shots, then move it and start over again as I continue my hiking and plinking.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

If you had a Garmin Xero, this may have been avoided.

“Seemed hotter” is not a standard unit of measure. A Garmin would have told you exactly what was going on.
If the previous bullet was lodged in the barrel, the Garmin would not have registered a shot, and maybe you would have stopped to investigate.
If the previous round was too hot, the Garmin would have told you and maybe you would have stopped. Maybe all the rounds were hot. No way of knowing.

If you don’t have a chronograph, you don’t have a clue what’s going on. I’ve seen reloading resources state velocities as much as 200 fps lower than what they chronoed.

Garmin are cheap. There’s no reason in the world for not everyone to have one.

"If you don't have a cronograph, You don't have a clue what whats going on.".............BULL MALARKY..........You Should know better than that.

 

[Rule3]

Well I am glad we got this all figured out

Sorry about the gun and glad you are OK.

 

[Taj]

I went to the range today and took my K38 manufactured in 1952 sn #K116731 must have had a hot round and destroyed the forcing cone and the yoke, the cylinder turns about hail way and sticks. I was shooting norma 158 gr fmj.

Check the frame at the yoke cut and make sure it didn't split the frame. That is the thinest part and when the barrel tenon is split that bad, I have seen them split the frame as well. If the frame is okay, you'll have to find a gunsmith that can carefully machine / cut off that tenon/ forcing cone area before they try to unscrew the barrel. If you don't do that it will split the frame for sure. I have done more than my share of those.

 

[Bugger]

Ouch
I also think it’s a timing issue. I’ve never seen that in a S&W.

 

[Buford57]

During the Pandemic I bought a couple of boxes of Norma .357 Magnum 158 grain FMJ. I intended to shoot it sparingly in a nice S&W Model 28-2 that I own. Reading this horror story has me paranoid about whether the stuff is safe. These rounds are made by Ruag in Hungary. Does anyone have any experience with this brand?

View attachment 728003

Not that it proves anything but I ran a box of that through a 586-3 last week without incident.

 

[Nframe_is_no1]

So sorry to hear about your K-38. If it was me, I’d be on the phone with Norma customer service. Since this was factory ammo, they should accept responsibility and take care of this by hopefully offering to replace the gun plus pay for your aggravation. I think you have a good case here.

 

[SPGUSN]

If you feel like repairing her, I have some S&W .38 cylinders and yokes...maybe, just maybe, even a barrel...the cylinder and yokes still in the white, never mounted. if you want, you can shoot me an email at [email protected]

 

[Green Frog]

The talk seems to be trending toward simply replacing the (obviously) damaged parts and expecting all to be well with the world. This may or may not be the case. That much pressure is likely to have stressed your frame, perhaps in ways that are not obvious to the untrained eye. I would not dream of repairing it myself nor giving it to "Bubba the Parts Changer" who has made a bunch of ARs to repair it. If I couldn't get it to a trained gunsmith who is a machinist with at least basic metallurgy skills, I wouldn't dream of having it repaired at all. To do the damage done, there was a bunch of serious, explosive pressure exerted on that frame! JMHO, but I value my body, aged though it is too much to take wild gambles on damaged guns.
Green Frog

 

[Doug M.]

Glad you were not hurt. That's the important part. You can replace a gun; a hand or eye, not so much.

To me, the causation is not very important unless someone is fiscally responsible. The fact that it was FMJ is likely not relevant; it is possible to screw up making ammo of any type. As for the comment from someone that the old steel might have been a factor, I doubt it. S&W revolvers have been made with hardened good quality steel since way before this revolver was made, and even IF there is a difference between the steel used in this revolver and newer revolvers, the difference is probably modest, and even "+P" .38 is pretty mild.

I would be cautious in effort to fix it. It would take a pretty savvy person to assess the remaining parts to be comfortable with any replacement efforts; I'd serious consider sending it to BMCM for assessment as he is an old school machinist wi the ability to assess dimensions.

 

[MelvinWalker]

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how I've shot for the last 60 years without one!

Robert

"If you don't have a cronograph, You don't have a clue what whats going on.".............BULL MALARKY..........You Should know better than that.

Exactly...No kidding, in that I probably personally shot 10,000 rounds of Turkish and Egyptian 8mm Mauser that was hot as a firecracker...Back in the early 2000's, places like SOG and Century had it for $5 a bandolier of 80 rounds on stripper clips. It was so hot that it broke my extractor on my Hakim rifle. I had some misfires, some hangfires and several bruised shoulders, but no chronograph to light my path to righteousness.

I have never owned a chronograph because I have exactly zero interest in reloading anything.

 

[Richard93]

I went to the range today and took my K38 manufactured in 1952 sn #K116731 must have had a hot round and destroyed the forcing cone and the yoke, the cylinder turns about hail way and sticks. I was shooting norma 158 gr fmj.

It's never nice to throw away a gun, especially if you're fond of it. But the important thing is to still have all your fingers, guns are ultimately pieces of steel.
It would be interesting to see the empty case if you kept it

 

[BC38]

If you had a Garmin Xero, this may have been avoided.

“Seemed hotter” is not a standard unit of measure. A Garmin would have told you exactly what was going on.
If the previous bullet was lodged in the barrel, the Garmin would not have registered a shot, and maybe you would have stopped to investigate.
If the previous round was too hot, the Garmin would have told you and maybe you would have stopped. Maybe all the rounds were hot. No way of knowing.

If you don’t have a chronograph, you don’t have a clue what’s going on. I’ve seen reloading resources state velocities as much as 200 fps lower than what they chronoed.

Garmin are cheap. There’s no reason in the world for not everyone to have one.

Your statements are spot on - for reloaders testing and shooting their own handloads.

But for a non-reloader shooting factory ammo, buying and setting up a chrono for every target practice session just seems like a bit of overkill.

More trouble than it is worth 99.999% of the time.

Unfortunately for deno56, this was that one in 100 thousand times that it could have been useful - maybe - assuming that he stopped to really think about what a REALLY erratic reading from the chrono meant before firing another round.

IMO, expecting everyone to shoot every round of factory ammo over a chrono seems a little unrealistic.

But that's JMO and YMMV...

 

[ralph7]

So sorry to hear about your K-38. If it was me, I’d be on the phone with Norma customer service. Since this was factory ammo, they should accept responsibility and take care of this by hopefully offering to replace the gun plus pay for your aggravation. I think you have a good case here.

I would think that trying to prove that that one round was problematic would be a tough row to hoe...

 

[Drm50]

I would use jewelers saw to cut off forcing cone as close to frame as possible. Knock out barrel pin and unscrew barrel. May require penetrating
oil or some heat.
Should be able to put it back on the road for $100.
I have no idea why FMJs would be a problem in 38sp revolvers. First I heard of that tidbit of info. Another gem of info is that K prefix denotes a
K38. Makes me want to sign up for the RG forum.

 

[BC38]

In terms of assessing the damage, looking at the photos, it appears that the forcing cone of your revolver is split in FOUR places - and flared out in all four directions.

As I see it, for all practical intents and purposes, it has been turned into a BIG steel pop-rivet.

Un-screwing that barrel out of the frame - assuming the frame isn't cracked - is going to require cutting/machining off every bit of the barrel shank that protrudes into the cylinder window first - before you even try to unscrew the barrel from the frame.

Trying to unscrew it without doing that first will most likely result in a cracked frame.

IMO, Steelslaver has described the best, most viable way(s) to POSSIBLY salvage the frame on this one. It is going to take the skills of a really good machinist. This isn't a job for the average "gunsmith". And that is assuming that the frame isn't already damaged beyond being salvageable.

If the frame is damaged beyond repair, the rest of the revolver can be "salvaged" as a parts kit.

A sad fate for such a classic revolver. But these things happen. Thankfully demo56 and any bystanders weren't injured.

 

[Yendor357]

It took me 15 seconds to turn it on and set it down.

 

[BC38]

It took me 15 seconds to turn it on and set it down.

Good for you!

If you weren't a reloader, would you invest $500 in one?!? FWIW, looking at it realistically, most non-reloaders wouldn't - because it is totally unnecessary for people shooting FACTORY ammo 99,999 times out of 100,000.

As you have already pointed out, the vast majority of reloaders reloaded and shot millions of rounds without the benefits of shooting every round over a chrono for several DECADES.

Fast-forward to today. For 99,999 out of 100,000 non-reloaders, who are shooting ONLY factory-loaded ammo, the $500 for a Doppler-radar chrono would be better spent buying and shooting 2,000-3,000 rounds of ammo - or even on buying another gun.

Statistically speaking, the benefits of shooting every FACTORY-loaded round over a chrono, are INCREDIBLY small.

For us reloaders, making the investment to buy a chrono makes a LOT of sense. We need to verify that the rounds we are producing are safe and in-spec. And the cost of a chrono is now within reach for most of us. For non-reloaders shooting factory loaded ammo, not so much.

Does that make sense? Can you see my point? Even if it is a viewpoint that is different from your own?

 

[steelslaver]

Glad you were not hurt. That's the important part. You can replace a gun; a hand or eye, not so much.

To me, the causation is not very important unless someone is fiscally responsible. The fact that it was FMJ is likely not relevant; it is possible to screw up making ammo of any type. As for the comment from someone that the old steel might have been a factor, I doubt it. S&W revolvers have been made with hardened good quality steel since way before this revolver was made, and even IF there is a difference between the steel used in this revolver and newer revolvers, the difference is probably modest, and even "+P" .38 is pretty mild.

I would be cautious in effort to fix it. It would take a pretty savvy person to assess the remaining parts to be comfortable with any replacement efforts; I'd serious consider sending it to BMCM for assessment as he is an old school machinist wi the ability to assess dimensions.

Before I stuck another barrel and or yoke, I would do some serious measuring. If the front of the frame is still square it didn't reach its elastic limit.

A bushing with .540 threads with a hole in the center could be installed in the frame, then a rod that just slides down the hole installed and the tip should line up with the firing pin hole. Plus you could measure from top strap to the rod Plus a perfectly square block could be places in frame window and fine measurements taken of it to check everything. A new yoke may or may not be needed. Same for the cylinder. But, I have several of both.

I also would check the rear of the hole where barrel mounts to see is it got swollen/

 

[Freischütz]

Before doing anything to the gun I'd wait and see what Norma says.