Detonics Combat Master

[03hemi]

Well the State's pointless waiting period finished yesterday, so I picked it up last night after work.

Tonight I detail stripped it. This was one dirty gun, and not from the storage. It doesn't look like the previous owner cleaned it much.

You can see the crud and some corrosion on the parts. Everything got soaked in brake cleaner, scrubbed with a nylon brush, and the stubborn stuff got scrubbed with a brass brush. After blowing everything dry it all got lightly oiled and the slide rails greased. Gun is smooth and slick now.

The finish could use more work, it still has that stainless haze, but the tape residue is gone. It's going to be a working gun so not sure if I'll do too much more.

I did install the new hammer- fit was great and no more pinching.

The only snag was the left upper grip screw- the bushing came out instead of the screw. That meant I couldn't put the wood grips on. I have some NOS Pachmeyers inbound as well. I put the bushing back with blue locktite on the threads (all I have in the house) and hoping that once it sets up it'll let go of the grip screw.

It cycles dummy rounds 100% and the trigger is very nice.

Came out very nice! Make sure to hold on to the "J" hook hammer too.
Edit: Just went back and saw yours never had one or somebody swapped it out already? Oh well, still a great collectable.

 

[Mainsail]

Came out very nice! Make sure to hold on to the "J" hook hammer too.
Edit: Just went back and saw yours never had one or somebody swapped it out already? Oh well, still a great collectable.

Looking at all the pics in a Bing search for the gun I saw only a few with a commander hammer. I have a hard time believing that it came from the factory that way; my FFL friend got hammer-bit just cycling the slide. Talk about a flinch maker, I'd be afraid the drop the hammer on a live round.

The only parts of the gun that didn't get disassembled and cleaned were the mag release (removed and brake cleaner shot into the assembly, then oil) and the mainspring housing (the pachmeyer backstrap conceals the pin).

Hoping to drive up to the mountains today or tomorrow to shoot it a bit.

I'm curious to know how loose these guns were from the factory. Mine has some play in the slide and barrel. If it's across-the-room accurate I'll leave it as is, but if it won't group I'll probably start looking for someone who can improve it.

Also, wanted to mention that cocking the hammer on the draw is more difficult than I expected. The mainspring is pretty stout and there's not much to hold on to for leverage.

 

[Mainsail]

Obviously, the Locktite worked and held the bushing so I was able to get the grip screw out.

Notice the magazine not fully seated. EDIT to add: The mag is fully seated but the fit isn't flush, that's what I mean. That's one of the Triple-K aftermarket mags- marked "Detonics 45 Auto". The stock magazines are marked "Detonics .45 A.C.P."

I have a set of NOS Pachs inbound, but the wood ones look nice too.

Should be back with a range report tonight!

EDIT to update: No range report! We drove an hour and just after leaving the pavement going in to the Olympic National Forest I heard a bell and the little oil can light on the dash came on, then went out. Checked it and it was low (due oil change in 300 miles) so added enough to get it into the good zone, but the light kept coming on intermittently. We turned around and headed home, about 70%-30% in favor of it being the sending unit. A few miles later the CEL came on, which tells me it's likely a sensor gone bad.

Got home and put the code reader on it; P0520 ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR CIRCUIT. Fired up the M1009 and drove to the dealership for the part. Will install it tomorrow.

 

[stansdds]

Hope the Triple K magazine works, but their reputation is much like that of ProMag.

 

[Mainsail]

Today was either fix the jeep or drive the M1009 to the mountains to shoot the gun. Decided to drive to the mountains. On my way home, about half way home, the truck bucked once... About ten miles later it bucked a couple more times and died. I pulled off, popped the hood, and seeing nothing amiss I tried to start. Fired right up, so I set off towards home again. I got about five more miles and it died.

I managed to coast down the big hill to the Hood Canal Bridge at idle and it died on the bridge a few hundred yards across. Repeat that six or seven more times and I was on my side of the bridge and it died. I was able to restart but the road ahead had no shoulder and it wasn't running for more than a minute or so before quitting, so I called it.

First time in my life I've ever had to call a tow truck. I was still $200 away from the driveway so that hurt, but there's nobody close that can come tow-strap me home- and braking with the motor off is scary anyway.

The Combat Master shoot wasn't as good as I'd hoped either. I was getting regular failures to extract, and the brass has extractor marks. I'm leaning towards a timing issue? All the Triple-K mags worked fine, as did the stock mag, but most weren't holding the slide open after the last round, and sometimes the slide would lock back with one round still in the mag. The best performing mags were the Wilson 47s. All in all I fired 50 rounds of hardball and a handful of HSTs and the gun ate them equally well.

At this point I'm not sure if I want to troubleshoot the gun or find an expert.

EDIT to add: I forgot to mention the accuracy. The gun was shooting (such as it was) one ragged hole patterns at about 18'. Brass throw was somewhat erratic and I only found about ¾ of the box of empties. One was 22' back and to the right, but most were about five feet behind and five feet right.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Well, I've got two thoughts, such as they are. *shrug*

Did you install new recoil and/or hammer springs?

The extractor may need tuning or replacement. Or it might be clocking. Maybe fitting an oversized firing pin stop?

Not a gunsmith, but those were the first things to come to mind. I hope you're able to get it running satisfactorily.

 

[Pig Hunter]

I had a blued one for a while. Traded for a 2.5" 66 no dash. I enjoyed it but my wife couldn't work the slide with the double recoil spring. I think I remember you can use full size 1911 magazines. It shot and functioned well for me.

 

[Dogbone44Spl]

Mainsail, Check to see if Pete is still at Ben's Loans in Renton. Pete worked at Detonics and is a wealth of knowledge. He may be laying low because of Covid.

 

[stansdds]

Geez! You just spent $200 on a towing fee and I'm about to give you advice on spending money on M1911 parts.

Tuning 1911's with barrels shorter than 4 inches takes work and parts. The erratic ejection is usually a result of an extractor that is turning, we call it "clocking", slightly within the tunnel. The fix is a fitted firing pin stop. If you are going to fit a firing pin stop, might as well get a flat bottom stop from EGW (Evolution Gun Works) as that will delay breech unlocking and slow the recoil of the slide better than any recoil spring weight.

You might also want to get a spring steel extractor as they hold tension longer than cast or billet steel extractors. With these parts, plus recoil springs and even main springs, you can tune most 1911 style pistols for reliable extraction and feeding.

You probably should replace the magazine springs too, maybe go with Wolff 5% extra power springs, assuming the magazine bodies have adequate stiffness. To be honest, I think Colt, MecGar, Tripp, and even Metalform are better magazines than Triple K or ProMag.

 

[Mainsail]

Geez! You just spent $200 on a towing fee and I'm about to give you advice on spending money on M1911 parts.

Tuning 1911's with barrels shorter than 4 inches takes work and parts. The erratic ejection is usually a result of an extractor that is turning, we call it "clocking", slightly within the tunnel. The fix is a fitted firing pin stop. If you are going to fit a firing pin stop, might as well get a flat bottom stop from EGW (Evolution Gun Works) as that will delay breech unlocking and slow the recoil of the slide better than any recoil spring weight.

Hmmm, interesting. The pin stop is one of the unique parts to the CM I believe. I think it's a stubby version of a standard 1911 stop, so one can make it from one of those. Anyway, that part is very loose on my gun.

You might also want to get a spring steel extractor as they hold tension longer than cast or billet steel extractors. With these parts, plus recoil springs and even main springs, you can tune most 1911 style pistols for reliable extraction and feeding.

I can, or someone that knows what they're doing can?

You probably should replace the magazine springs too, maybe go with Wolff 5% extra power springs, assuming the magazine bodies have adequate stiffness. To be honest, I think Colt, MecGar, Tripp, and even Metalform are better magazines than Triple K or ProMag.

The six round mags are unique to the CM. Other 1911 mags will work fine, just not seat flush. The issues I was having were across all the magazines I was using; the one older original OEM, the four new Triple-Ks, two full size Shooting Stars, and two Wilson 47s. I'm not entirely sure I can find replacement springs for the magazines.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'm not entirely sure I can find replacement springs for the magazines.

Wolff has recoil and mag springs for the Detonics Combat Master:

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=17

 

[Mainsail]

I did the extractor tension test and at first it held the case beautifully. But that was with the rear of extractor flush with the slide, which it turns out is only one of its many positions.

The range is slightly proud of the slide to inset substantially, as shown in the photos below. The firing pin retainer is very loose, so I think that's where most of the problem lies. I will end up replacing both of them.

EDIT to add: After church I pulled the extractor and firing pin retainer out of my Springfield 1991 Defender (70s series) and tried them in the Combat Master. The fit was much better with the Springfield parts and the extractor had no detectable movement.

Adding a couple pics too. The Detonics parts (top) next to the Springfield parts. The Detonics firing pin springs is toast, and it's an integral part of the operation due to the short slide. The extractor has a wider groove at the rear, and the claw isn't as beefy.

 

[Mainsail]

UPDATE:

I contacted Mark over at Thunder Mountain for some parts. They shipped super fast but the USPS took the small package on a nationwide tour that took almost two weeks longer than it should have.

The firing pin retainer was going to be the biggest problem because it's one of the Detonics unique parts. They sell one that's shorter, for use with a slide cut for Bomar sights and as you can see the fit is pretty close. I had planned to dress off the extra but after I installed it I think I'll leave it as is; there's no way I'm going to get that nice of an edge with a hand file, sander, or grinder.

The extractor was a tight fit, but it's in and all the slop is gone. The issue now is the length (?) of the extractor. Sliding a case under the hook, the rear of the case is not against the breech face, there seems to be a lot of space between. I don't know enough about 1911s to say for sure. Thoughts?

I also bought two new firing pin springs from Thunder Mountain. Both are Wolff springs; the extra power and the extra-extra power. The extra-extra is in now but the other is in the box with the tools to do a field change if I think it needs it.

I put the new recoil spring set in and swapped out the magazine spring with a new one from Wolff.

Hope to get out next weekend to give it a try. The 17th is the last day of work for me until the second week of 2021 as I need to burn off some use-or-lose leave, so I should have plenty of time to shoot the thing.

EDIT to add: if I'm still having problems it might be time to call in a Pro. I've reached the edge of my 1911 tuning/reliability knowledge.

 

[kreuzlover]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why anyone would want one of those constant jamming turds is beyond me. A guy next to me in my concealed weapons class had one of those jam-masters, and it did not fail him in that area! The range master finally made him use HIS 9mm Beretta to finish the shooting phase, otherwise we would have been there all afternoon. The guy shot a 175 score, the lowest you could shoot at that time on the Texas test to still pass and get your CWL. They might be collectors items, but I sure don't want one to depend on to protect my life.

 

[sipowicz]

Many years back I attended a full auto shoot in Connecticut and while we were loading guns into a pick up truck we heard a loud bang. We all looked around and noticed one guy had a hole through the back of his shirt. While he was loading a 30 cal it apparently caught on the hammer of his Detonics Master that was in a horizontal shoulder rig. Luckily it went off while he was bent down and the round hit the ceiling.

 

[Mainsail]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why anyone would want one of those constant jamming turds is beyond me.

No rain on my parade.

"Constant jamming" and "Combat Master" were phrases that never went together. That's what made the Detonics the best and only reliable subcompact 1911 in its day.

If you knew someone that had a problematic one, it was likely unique. Everything I have read (a lot so far) says they were one of the best concealed carry guns of the day.

And to be honest, wouldn't you be able to say that about any 1911? People have spent 2X the going rate for a 1911 to get the Kimber name on it, and the forums are full of people that say their would never run. Colt had a very long period where buying one was just a start, you were going to do a lot of work to make it run 100%, and they never did out of the box.

I will get this to run right and it will be a carry gun.

 

[kreuzlover]

Good luck, my friend. I've never read anything good about em, and I'm 75 years old.

 

[rwwracing70]

in joy

I was trolling some of the state auctions and found a property room auction happening down in Texas. There were at least 30 guns, all looking pretty bad. The listings all said they were stored in a non climate controlled area. Many of the rifles had some bad surface rust on the barrels, the internals were a complete unknown.

Of the handguns I wanted to bid on, there was a S&W model 19 and 66 among others. There was an old Dan Wesson 15 that could probably be refurbished. There was a FireStar I considered (sold under $100) and something I never heard of, a 10mm MegaStar.

But this was the one I wanted; the Detonics Combat Master from Seattle. It's one of my 'always wanted' guns that I highly desire, but would never pay their current market price to get. So it was always on my list to wait for a good deal or better.

I'm very excited to have won it at $300. It'll probably take a couple weeks to ship it in, but man I can't wait to get my hands on it!

Looks like one magazine, and since it's stainless I'm hoping it will only need a deep cleaning to bring it back. Someone pointed out the hammer doesn't look original, so I've ordered one from Numerich along with a couple magazines.

These were the photos I had to go with, not much in the way of description other than they were used guns stored poorly.

got mine in 1981 great gun

 

[stansdds]

The extractor was a tight fit, but it's in and all the slop is gone. The issue now is the length (?) of the extractor. Sliding a case under the hook, the rear of the case is not against the breech face, there seems to be a lot of space between. I don't know enough about 1911s to say for sure. Thoughts?

Perfectly normal and necessary. The extractor's job is not to hold the shell tight to the breech face, it's job is to pull on the case and hold it well enough that it does not come loose before the case head impacts the ejector. There needs to be clearance between the case head and the breech face while held by the extractor for smooth function.

 

[gen3guy]

I had one of these back in the '90s. VERY well made and and reliable. However, I could never understand why a compact pistol such as this was designed with a sight radius an inch shorter than it could have been. Brainless!