Diagnosis Needed for 32 Safety Hammerless

[delta-419]

A new gun arrived yesterday that was an impulse buy that cost me $60 plus freight. Thanks to a forum member, I have a missing screw to add to this project. However, it needs further attention! This in an early 1st model .32 in nickel, serial number 45212, problem: when the trigger is pulled all the way back it does not release the hammer. The cylinder seems to rotate OK into battery but does not drop the hammer at lockup. What do I look for? Appreciate your help.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a nice one, especially for the price.

The most common problem, especially with very old revolvers is gummed up parts.

The first rule is clean the innards and then test and observe for function, but knowing you, likely you may have done that already.

With side plate off I'd pull the trigger slowly and observe what's happening in the action. Look for a possible broken trigger or hammer stud creating excess play in the action. Let us know what you see.

 

[delta-419]

32 Hammerless

Thank you Hondo, you know me. Its in the bath and it is full of varnish. Will probably be there for awhile. This is a new type of gun for me to learn, can't wait to get inside it.

 

[cmansguns]

Need a whole duplicate?

Here's mine. Same gun, 1st Model .32 safety hammerless, s/n 5195. Number matches cylinder, between the ears and bbl. It is 3-1/2" and all action works as supposed to. Nothing broke or missing except for most of the nickel finish!

Even the grips are in great shape. I have just about what you do all-in on this piece, approx. $75.

I don't reload and probably wouldn't ever shoot this gun even if I could come across some ammo somewhere, and the other thing is (I don't know about you...but....) I can't seem to even get my trigger finger into the trigger with that close in circular guard..and I don't have large hands.

Anyway...if you come up short on getting yours running...PM me and we'll see if we can work something out.

I was thinking a shadow box style mounting to go along with my civil war stuff, but it's too late (1888) for that period, and I don't have much else except the US Army Model 1899 in 38 and this 1st Model would detract from that gun in a setting.

 

[mmaher94087]

I agree with a good soak first (no rush) and spray out the innards to get rid of the gum, varnish and crud from the last 100 years. If that doesn't work, then we will see what's wrong mechanically.

 

[delta-419]

Firing Pin Assembly?

To clarify: I'm working on two SH guns at the same time, a 38 and a 32. The 38 has been soaking in the atf/acetone bath for over a week. All pins and screws are easy to remove. How do I take out the bushing, firing pin, and spring? I have removed the mainspring and the pin holding the assembly in the frame, but which way out, through the back of the recoil shield or punched out from the back to front. Is a special tool required?

 

[Hondo44]

I wouldn't do any removal of parts yet. The soaking will have cleaned it sufficiently to function the action and start diagnosing/observing for the problem.

 

[glowe]

Unless the spring or firing pin is broken or stuck, I would not remove the bushing. You will need to drive the pin out of the frame and then drive out the bushing from the rear and that is a real pain to find or, as I did, make a tool to drive it out. After soaking, I would use some aerosol carb and choke cleaner. Insert the tube into the firing pin hole and blast away, then do the same with compressed air. Apply oil and you should be good to go for another 25 years or so.

 

[delta-419]

Stuck Firing Pin

The screws came out of the 38 SH really easy after about 10 days in the bath, but the hammer does work and moves freely. the 32SH has a week to go in the bath. Thank you for your advice the 38 will continue its soke. A very Merry Christmas to all.

 

[delta-419]

Update

Its been about a month since I put the little .32 Safety Hammerless and its big brother, a .38 SH, into its bath of ATF/acetone. It really does a great job. The firing pin is loose and moves as designed. Action is much smoother, now that 130 years of sluge has been cleaned out. Will check the .38S&W SH this afternoon. Its getting range time as soon as the storms pass.

 

[delta-419]

New Problem 38 Safety Hammerless.

I finished the assembly with the 38 Safety Hammerless this afternoon. After over 4 weeks in the atf/acetone bath, it is very clean and much smoother action, however the trigger does not return to battery. You can push it forward and it will return. The cylinder will time OK and the hammer will drop OK, but what component acts as the trigger return spring? Does the trigger spring serve a double purpose or is there a separate spring? I have David R. Chicoine's book, Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly and page 188 does not list a trigger return spring! I need your help!

 

[glowe]

The trigger spring is in front of the trigger and under the trigger guard. It is a V spring that can be difficult to hold in position until the trigger guard is reinstalled. You did remove the trigger guar didn't you?

The trigger guard has to be compressed and removed from the frame by pushing the rear section forward until it lifts out of the frame. You can then remove it. the spring lays under the front portion of the guard and presses on the front leg of the trigger. It often slips off when trying to remove it.

This schematic might help.

 

[delta-419]

Trigger Spring

Glowe, I did not remove the trigger guard but I did take off the side plate and removed the mainspring. I will go back in and see if the trigger spring is positioned correctly. I was using the same schematic that you provided. It may have slipped position when I took out the MS, if that's possible? This gun is in much better condition then I thought. It's a late 1930s with "Made in U.S.A." on the right side, serial number 258226. Thanks for your quick response.

 

[glowe]

The trigger spring changed over time and it may only be a simple V spring on late model guns. It should not have moved unless the guard was removed, so you need to check it out. I usually place the frame upside down in a padded vise and use a large wood dowel rod inserted between the butt frame and the rear of the trigger guard. It will move forward enough to raise it from the frame. There is really no trick to reinstallation, but do not be surprised if you have to try several times before the spring remains on the ledge of the trigger when reinserting the trigger guard.

 

[mmaher94087]

As I remember, one leg of the V spring is slightly longer than the other and the longer side is on the trigger.

 

[delta-419]

Trigger Spring

To add another comment about the trigger pull, it is strong until the breakover and loses all tension after the hammer drops. Halfway thru the pull the trigger snaps forward under tension, when released, even as the cylinder goes into battery. If the legs of the spring are one longer than the other, then it may be installed incorrectly. I will break it down this afternoon and learn a bit more. This certainly is an education since N frames have been my passion for so many years. Appreciate your comment!

 

[delta-419]

38 Safety Hammerless

YouTube has an excellent step by step video on the assembly of the S&W Safety Hammerless. Its not easy to find. Its about 18 minutes long. Title of the video is "Smith & Wesson top break reassembly". I found it by accident this morning. As I am trouble shooting my 38SH, it helps with the trigger spring issue. I have watched the installation of the trigger spring segment several times and it helps a lot.

 

[delta-419]

Broken Trigger Spring

Glowe, I finally got the trigger spring out and it was broken. This spring was not a very thick spring and it was completely rusted out. I know Jack First and Numrich Gun Parts has the springs. Is there a "delta" between the models as this gun is a model 5, towards the end of production? You mentioned it in one of your responses as a simple V spring.

 

[gmborkovic]

You know, the more I look at and work on these little SHs, I really grow
to appreciate the machining and fit that went into them. Plus they are still out there and reasonably priced. And there is a vast support group right
here on the Forum.
Still dont carry one as a primary protection piece.

 

[glowe]

I assume the pieces of the spring remained inside? If so, I believe it should be a simple V spring with one leg slightly longer than the other as mentioned above. I have made these in the past using spring steel, but believe this part is now available from various sources. Online, the thing to look for is an image of the part for sale that matches what you have. The trigger spring in both the 32 Safety and a 32 DA should be the same, but trial and error may be needed to get what you want.