Did SEAL Team 6 really use the Model 66?
- Thread starter David Sinko
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Chuck Jones
Member
In the '80s I remember seeing a magazine picture (in Time, Life, or some such) of a US millitary "trainer" in Central America reading while off duty. There was a stainless 4" L frame with Pachmayr's in the shot.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Good point: I have, in fact, had a Browning Hi-Power slide get snarled in the cuff of a parka sleeve. BAD jam! I had to take off the coat on a cold, windy day, and work HARD to get the gun free of the sleeve.
GIGN usually used four-inch barrelled MR-73 revolvers, but they've had all sorts of options, to suit a given mission. Austrian equivalents also had the four-inch MR-73, and some were sold as surplus some time ago.
T-Star
The SEAL weapons display at the annual NAS Oceana airshow regularly included a 686. I recall one year they had a 686 submerged in a fish tank and would take it out every few hours and shoot off the six blanks it was loaded with.
Some years back there was a retired naval officer who shot at my range. He had a 4" 66 that he said was identical to one he used in the service. IIRC he was in a special warfare division stationed in Little Creek VA.
He used to tape an index card to the chest of a B27 and roll it out to 7 yards. Then he would draw and fire two shots into the index card. Those shots were always millimeters apart. Very impressive shooting. Regards 18DAI.
Some years back there was a retired naval officer who shot at my range. He had a 4" 66 that he said was identical to one he used in the service. IIRC he was in a special warfare division stationed in Little Creek VA.
He used to tape an index card to the chest of a B27 and roll it out to 7 yards. Then he would draw and fire two shots into the index card. Those shots were always millimeters apart. Very impressive shooting. Regards 18DAI.
dfariswheel
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Usually, water won't infiltrate into snugged down screws, so they won't rust if the gun is properly treated once out of salt water.
The last I heard about the "swimming" S&W revolvers, the technique was to drop the guns in a tank of fresh water, hot if possible to flush out the salt water.
After removing the guns, the water was blown out and they were lubricated with....wait for it.....WD-40.
I know, WD-40 is NOT a lubricant and it instantly causes a gun to rust and gum up.
The SEALs apparently hadn't read the message.
One of the most interesting things I ever read about WD-40 is in the book "Good To Go" by famed multiple tour Vietnam SEAL Harry Constance.
Constance wrote that when he came in from a patrol, he'd remove the plastic parts from his Stoner light machine gun and drop the assembled gun AND the linked ammo into a cut-off barrel of gasoline.
After breakfast, he'd remove the gun and ammo, disassemble and clean the gun, then liberally spray the gun AND linked ammo with WD-40 to lubricate and prevent rust.
He said he was then ready to go out again, and that in 3 tours of duty, he never had a jam from the Stoner.
True, he did this every day so the WD didn't have time to gum up, but this also puts paid to the story about WD-40 "killing" primers.
Apparently SEAL 6 and the other teams thought WD-40 was good for revolvers too.
The SEALs are super anal retentive about weapons maintenance, which is why SEALs seem to not have as many problems with weapons as other people do.
Since they spend so much time on maintenance, they find methods that work for them no matter the common knowledge that says that's not good.
The last I heard about the "swimming" S&W revolvers, the technique was to drop the guns in a tank of fresh water, hot if possible to flush out the salt water.
After removing the guns, the water was blown out and they were lubricated with....wait for it.....WD-40.
I know, WD-40 is NOT a lubricant and it instantly causes a gun to rust and gum up.
The SEALs apparently hadn't read the message.
One of the most interesting things I ever read about WD-40 is in the book "Good To Go" by famed multiple tour Vietnam SEAL Harry Constance.
Constance wrote that when he came in from a patrol, he'd remove the plastic parts from his Stoner light machine gun and drop the assembled gun AND the linked ammo into a cut-off barrel of gasoline.
After breakfast, he'd remove the gun and ammo, disassemble and clean the gun, then liberally spray the gun AND linked ammo with WD-40 to lubricate and prevent rust.
He said he was then ready to go out again, and that in 3 tours of duty, he never had a jam from the Stoner.
True, he did this every day so the WD didn't have time to gum up, but this also puts paid to the story about WD-40 "killing" primers.
Apparently SEAL 6 and the other teams thought WD-40 was good for revolvers too.
The SEALs are super anal retentive about weapons maintenance, which is why SEALs seem to not have as many problems with weapons as other people do.
Since they spend so much time on maintenance, they find methods that work for them no matter the common knowledge that says that's not good.
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If you can believe the various books and literature, then yes they did. I am sure many will answer your question first hand because, like everyone who served in WWII served under General Patton, everyone who has ever been in the US Navy has been on "the teams!"
Seriously, I have seen films of the French GIGN using blued Manurhin Model MR73 revolvers in .357 Magnum and coming up out of the water during training, revolver in hand, ready to take out a sentry.
I am quite certain that stainless would hold up better than blue, and, with either, rust is not going to happen instantly.
Making sure there is no rust is a matter of blowing out the internals and using a water displacing/lubing treatment, and drying it off. Although I am not inclined to take a really nice Model 27 or Python in the ocean, it CAN be done without ill effects, with careful treatment, and without having to remove the sideplate in the field. Again, not the first choice, but at the time, more corrosion resistant than say, a 1911.
badguybuster
Member
Previous usage aside for a moment. If one were to get a newer revolver into salt water (say a S&W 627-stainless) what would your immediate course of action be? What ammo is recommended for "water work"? Just curious. I know a lot of guys who used WD-40 when I was in the Army. Never seemed to hurt anything.
SEAL TEAM
Seal team used the S&W 686 Sig P-228 and P-226 along with the Colt 1911 Berreta's also were tested had trouble with frames cracking after thousands of rds.
Seal team used the S&W 686 Sig P-228 and P-226 along with the Colt 1911 Berreta's also were tested had trouble with frames cracking after thousands of rds.
Wether you get a gun totally wet in a rain or you have had it under water the clean up is the same.
Here are a couple of ways to do it quick, without taking the gun apart.
Which way depends upon "what stuff" you have with you.
1. You can rinse/flush out the gun in warm to hot water. The hotter the water the better. as if the gun is hot a lot of the water will evaorate.
Then just relube.
2. You can hose the gun down WD40, which displaces the water, shake as much WD 40 our as possible and dry out the chambers and barrel.
You can use a few squirts of Gunscrubber to quickly dry out the barrel and chamber. Or you can blast all the WD 40 out of the gun and relube with "good lube".
3. Use just about any gune lube in an aresol can and spray out the gun, then dry chambers and barrel.
4. Spray the gun down with Ballistol, and then dry out the chamber{s} and barrel.
5. Or if you have lubed your gun with E&L Gun Lube, a sray on Dry Graphite, you can just shake all the water out you can [ if you have been in Salt Water then flush out with fresh water if avialable, and go on about the Mission.
E&L gun lube does not wash off.
Of course later, when time and place allows your strip down the gun and do proper maintance.
I have spent a lot of time around water and guns and I have used all of the above techniques over the years. None of my guns have suffered any rust damage.
Here are a couple of ways to do it quick, without taking the gun apart.
Which way depends upon "what stuff" you have with you.
1. You can rinse/flush out the gun in warm to hot water. The hotter the water the better. as if the gun is hot a lot of the water will evaorate.
Then just relube.
2. You can hose the gun down WD40, which displaces the water, shake as much WD 40 our as possible and dry out the chambers and barrel.
You can use a few squirts of Gunscrubber to quickly dry out the barrel and chamber
3. Use just about any gune lube in an aresol can and spray out the gun, then dry chambers and barrel.
4. Spray the gun down with Ballistol, and then dry out the chamber{s} and barrel.
5. Or if you have lubed your gun with E&L Gun Lube, a sray on Dry Graphite, you can just shake all the water out you can [ if you have been in Salt Water then flush out with fresh water if avialable, and go on about the Mission.
E&L gun lube does not wash off.
Of course later, when time and place allows your strip down the gun and do proper maintance.
I have spent a lot of time around water and guns and I have used all of the above techniques over the years. None of my guns have suffered any rust damage.
If you are operating a gun in a highly dusty environment the R&L Gun Lube is good stuff.
Also for flushong the dust our of a gun the Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube is good stuff.
It cleans like Gunscrubber, but leaves a dry lube behind.
I like the Aresol products when I need to do something quick fast and easy.
Also for flushong the dust our of a gun the Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube is good stuff.
It cleans like Gunscrubber, but leaves a dry lube behind.
I like the Aresol products when I need to do something quick fast and easy.
Titegroups
Member
A good reason to use a revolver for practice would be the wax bullets would probably not cycle the action of a semiauto during practice, I'm sure the military could afford all the revolvers they needed.
OP
David Sinko
Member
I have folding knives with stainless steel blades that have taken a dip in the ocean and the blades rusted immediately. The rust appears to be mostly cosmetic and it's still there today, so I would expect that most if not all of these sea water revolvers will be looking a nice shade of brown. One of the lasting effects of the sea water bath has to be a permanent brown stain. If it's only cosmetic, I guess that's OK.
Does anybody know how long a stainless steel revolver can last after being dunked in the sea before it DOES start to seize up?
Dave Sinko
Does anybody know how long a stainless steel revolver can last after being dunked in the sea before it DOES start to seize up?
Dave Sinko
badguybuster
Member
Don't most military handguns have to pass a salt water test? Or perhaps the SEALs have a secret way of transporting them to the OP site???
Combat_Diver
US Veteran
Never been a SEAL but have trained with them around the world and been to 3 of their courses. When training with SEAL Team 2 in Machrinhanish Scotland in the late 80s they had a few 4" Model 66s in the arms room. I didn't see them taken out on the ranges with us or during our dives but they were there if needed. As far as mantainence goes it's already been covered. The WD in WD-40 stands for Water Displacement.
Two SEALs, two Royal Navy Jordian Diver at 30' with LAR V rebreathers (I'm also on a LAR V taking the picture)
Couple 5th SFGA Combat Divers with LAR Vs
CD
Two SEALs, two Royal Navy Jordian Diver at 30' with LAR V rebreathers (I'm also on a LAR V taking the picture)
Couple 5th SFGA Combat Divers with LAR Vs
CD
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