Didn't expect a KaBoom today...

[loonybin]

However, that is exactly what happened, after running about 6 mags through my 9mm Shield today:

more pictures can be seen here:
Shield KB Slideshow by roosclan | Photobucket

My boss gave me some 9mm ammo several months ago when he converted to .40 (he was impressed with my Shield, so he got one in .40) and I finally got around to shooting what he gave me. He doesn't reload, so I have no reason to suspect that it's a handload.

The gun was running great, other than the heavy trigger feeling like it has a very tough break point. The first couple of rounds from the magazine fired fine, then suddenly I felt a bunch of stuff hit my face and glasses when the gun went off again. The case failed to extract, and it wasn't until I pulled it out that I saw the ruptured case.

I'll be calling S&W tomorrow to see what to do about the pistol. I'm pretty sure they will want the case if they want me to send in the gun.

 

[Raisin]

What brand of ammo did you shoot? Your boss may not have reloaded the it but it still could have been reloads. Ask you boss where he got it. My guess is it's an ammo problem, not a gun problem.

 

[Bill Bates]

It looks like it fired out of battery.

 

[Jboutfishn]

It looks like it fired out of battery.

Certainly not an expert but I agree.

 

[martybee]

It looks like it fired out of battery.

I agree! Round appears to have not been fully seated in the chamber. Looks like it blew out at the 6.00 ramp position.

mb

 

[755]

Glad you were wearing glasses. I have seen a lot of people shooting without them.

 

[shocker]

Shouldn't modern pistol designs preclude firing out of battery? I tried it with my R51 dry firing and if the slide is back far enough to open a gap between the barrel and bolt the trigger is disconnected. Wrong test?

 

[Com 45acp]

Any damage to firearm? If so any pics of it?

 

[loonybin]

What brand of ammo did you shoot? Your boss may not have reloaded the it but it still could have been reloads. Ask you boss where he got it. My guess is it's an ammo problem, not a gun problem.

This one was Winchester. My boss is cheap, so he just buys what's on sale. He traded his G19 for the Shield because he hadn't shot it in forever, so it's possible that the ammo was old. The spots of tarnish on it mean it could have had corrosion wiped off which may have weakened the case. I will be relieved, actually, if it was an ammo issue, but the pictures I usually see of blown reloads have split necks. This has the classic "Glock .40 bulge" from not being fully supported at the chamber - which would mean firing out of battery since this isn't a 40cal Glock.

It looks like it fired out of battery.

Certainly not an expert but I agree.

I agree! Round appears to have not been fully seated in the chamber. Looks like it blew out at the 6.00 ramp position.

mb

That is exactly what I was thinking, but I didn't want to color anyone's perception by my own guess. The bulge was not visible when I looked down at the FTE until I took the case out.

Glad you were wearing glasses. I have seen a lot of people shooting without them.

Only time I don't wear shooting glasses is when I'm hunting. This just reinforced why.

Shouldn't modern pistol designs preclude firing out of battery? I tried it with my R51 dry firing and if the slide is back far enough to open a gap between the barrel and bolt the trigger is disconnected. Wrong test?

I thought the same thing, which is why I will be calling S&W.

 

[TAC]

The brass looks odd to me. It looks really scuffed up in numerous directions, nicked, pitted, tarnished, and the rim area looks rounded off, not sharp, and not well defined. The explosion may have caused some of that, but it just doesn't look right.

It also looks as if the powder didn't completely burn.

Glad you weren't seriously injured.

 

[TAC]

It looks like it fired out of battery.

I did a quick Google search, and it appears that's happened in the past.

M&P shield firing out of battery
shield firing out of battery - Google Search

 

[Jim Watson]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how a Browning tilt-lock action is going to "fire out of battery" with a centered firing pin strike.

When the gun is out of battery, the barrel is down. By the time any excess case is exposed the firing pin is completely out of line with the primer.

 

[berudd]

Not a reloading expert but trying to learn as I get ready to start doing it. That looks similar to what you might see with excessive headspace. If other shells from the gun don't show in signs of stretching of the case in that area then my guess is similar to others that it seems to have fired while not in battery.

Did you notice any sort of hang fire? A click...BOOM situation. Just wondering if the click would have been enough to move the slide slightly and then when it fired it was not fully supported. Just a guess.

You mentioned the boss is cheap. Any chance he got a "deal" on the ammo at a gun show? There's always the chance someone sold him some crappy reloads with worn out brass and passed it off as new.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how a Browning tilt-lock action is going to "fire out of battery" with a centered firing pin strike.

When the gun is out of battery, the barrel is down. By the time any excess case is exposed the firing pin is completely out of line with the primer.

Only way I know is if the firing pin is sticking out of the breech face, the extractor is loose enough for the primer to slide into place in front of the firing pin, and with that all aligned, the round hangs up as it is being chambered, thus forcing the firing pin into the primer. Lots of things had to have gone wrong here . . .

 

[2ndAmendmentNut]

It's hard to tell from one single picture, but it does not look like it fired out of battery to me. The firing pin dent is centered on the primer and the case blew out at the thickest part. Looks like the ammo was way over pressure and the case failed in the unsupported area of the chamber.

 

[Arik]

This one was Winchester. My boss is cheap, so he just buys what's on sale. He traded his G19 for the Shield because he hadn't shot it in forever, so it's possible that the ammo was old. The spots of tarnish on it mean it could have had corrosion wiped off which may have weakened the case. I will be relieved, actually, if it was an ammo issue, but the pictures I usually see of blown reloads have split necks. This has the classic "Glock .40 bulge" from not being fully supported at the chamber - which would mean firing out of battery since this isn't a 40cal Glock.





That is exactly what I was thinking, but I didn't want to color anyone's perception by my own guess. The bulge was not visible when I looked down at the FTE until I took the case out.

Only time I don't wear shooting glasses is when I'm hunting. This just reinforced why.

I thought the same thing, which is why I will be calling S&W.

Ammo typically doesn't go bad that fast. Many of us are still shooting 50 - 100 year old ammo. Small spots of tarnish also doesn't weaken the brass unless it's major corrosion.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Hunter8282]

Any damage to firearm? If so any pics of it?

This! ^^^

 

[quicksilver]

I'm glad you were not injured!

 

[Heyman]

Shouldn't modern pistol designs preclude firing out of battery? I tried it with my R51 dry firing and if the slide is back far enough to open a gap between the barrel and bolt the trigger is disconnected. Wrong test?

All M&P's will fire slightly out of battery. Test it yourself. With an unloaded M&P, pull the slide back slightly, and pull the trigger. The firing pin will drop and seems like it would hit the primer.

 

[loonybin]

Ever done a press check on a Shield? The slide can move a few millimeters without the locking block causing the barrel to tip. It's out of battery, but still lined up with the firing pin.

 

[McE]

Why are there no pictures of the gun?
Take plenty of pictures for your reference. Once you send it in to S&W they won't return it and they won't tell you of their findings.

 

[loonybin]

Not a reloading expert but trying to learn as I get ready to start doing it. That looks similar to what you might see with excessive headspace. If other shells from the gun don't show in signs of stretching of the case in that area then my guess is similar to others that it seems to have fired while not in battery.

Did you notice any sort of hang fire? A click...BOOM situation. Just wondering if the click would have been enough to move the slide slightly and then when it fired it was not fully supported. Just a guess.

You mentioned the boss is cheap. Any chance he got a "deal" on the ammo at a gun show? There's always the chance someone sold him some crappy reloads with worn out brass and passed it off as new.

I will look at some of the other cases tonight and get a comparison picture. There was no hang fire. This round was in the middle of the magazine and I was practicing rapid fire, so I didn't notice it until I had powder hitting my face.

As for him buying it at a gun show... I suppose he could have. He wouldn't remember where he got it, though. I don't keep track of where I buy my ammo, but then, I don't buy ammo at gun shows unless it's a known company (we have a couple smaller companies here in KS who produce good quality once-fired reloads, but that's all rifle ammo).

It's hard to tell from one single picture, but it does not look like it fired out of battery to me. The firing pin dent is centered on the primer and the case blew out at the thickest part. Looks like the ammo was way over pressure and the case failed in the unsupported area of the chamber.

I will get come comparison pics of this case with some others.

This! ^^^

No damage to the gun that I could see. It partially dislodged the magazine and failed to eject the case, but that's it.

I'm glad you were not injured!

Does the partially-burnt powder embedded in my thumb count? [emoji1]

 

[loonybin]

Why are there no pictures of the gun?
Take plenty of pictures for your reference. Once you send it in to S&W they won't return it and they won't tell you of their findings.

Let me get this straight: if they want me to send in my gun, they won't return it and won't tell me why??

I didn't take pictures of the gun because there's nothing visibly wrong with it to take pictures of.

 

[gman51]

I am guessing but I think it could be the casing was bulged or cracked towards the head rim not allowing the round to totally go into chamber. So when the round fired the pressure blew out at the weakest point which was where the round was out of chamber.

 

[Hunter8282]

Let me get this straight: if they want me to send in my gun, they won't return it and won't tell me why??

I didn't take pictures of the gun because there's nothing visibly wrong with it to take pictures of.

Just my humble opinion, but if you send it in and S&W wants to study it or feels in anyway that it is unsafe, they'll likely just give you new Shield and keep yours.

 

[vipermd]

Case rupture/head separation - It does not have to be a over pressure load to cause it to go bang. My Sigma 40 went kaboom, pieces all over, while a M&P 40 blew out the magazine at nearly the same time. Unfortunately I got some of a friends ammo, and we had simultaneous kabooms. I was traced back to brass that had been damaged in cleaning, No I do not know the type of cleaner, how it was done, or any other specifics, rest of the rounds went into the burning barrel. Be Safe,

 

[loonybin]

Just my humble opinion, but if you send it in and S&W wants to study it or feels in anyway that it is unsafe, they'll likely just give you new Shield and keep yours.

Ok, we'll that I can handle. Maybe a little extra cash will wrangle a Shield 45 out of 'em... Of course, it would suck to have to start over breaking in the trigger.

 

[Jim Watson]

Only way I know is if the firing pin is sticking out of the breech face, the extractor is loose enough for the primer to slide into place in front of the firing pin, and with that all aligned, the round hangs up as it is being chambered, thus forcing the firing pin into the primer. Lots of things had to have gone wrong here . . .

Some of the early Series 80 Colts were subject to sticking the firing pin forward, usually when dryfired as in an IPSC Unload and Show Clear. All those I ever saw just jammed up with the round under the protruding firing pin. As you say, it would take multiple simultaneous faults to have the gun slamfire on a protruding firing pin. Considering the number of Internet Out of Battery claims, I am confident that something else was going on. Bad ammo, bad brass, overcut barrel are my usual suspects.

 

[Fastbolt]

Do the rest of the rounds in that "box" you were given all look as worn and used as the one in the picture?

 

[loonybin]

You mentioned the boss is cheap. Any chance he got a "deal" on the ammo at a gun show? There's always the chance someone sold him some crappy reloads with worn out brass and passed it off as new.

It's hard to tell from one single picture, but it does not look like it fired out of battery to me. The firing pin dent is centered on the primer and the case blew out at the thickest part. Looks like the ammo was way over pressure and the case failed in the unsupported area of the chamber.

Ammo typically doesn't go bad that fast. Many of us are still shooting 50 - 100 year old ammo. Small spots of tarnish also doesn't weaken the brass unless it's major corrosion.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Do the rest of the rounds in that "box" you were given all look as worn and used as the one in the picture?

Well, after looking at the rest of the unfired ammo, it is very apparent that this box had some reloads in it, if not the entire box, and they were old:

Yes, there are a couple hollowpoints there, one in a NATO case.

What I find interesting is the striker mark on the blown case does not appear as deep as the marks on the other cases, and doesn't have the elongated mark:

Here are a couple of images of some other cases, some from the box from my boss, some that isn't. Federal, Speer, CBC, Winchester.

I suppose this could be a combination of old/bad ammo and firing out of battery, or it may have just been the round itself being bad. The world may never know for sure. S&W has issued a RMA tag for me to send the pistol in. I suspect the pistol is fine, but it will be good to know for certain. Lesson to learn: if someone gives you "factory" ammo, check every round to make sure they weren't misled when they bought it.