Difference: 38 Super v. 38 Special?

[colt_saa]

The pressure is a non-issue in our modern 27/327/627 revolvers.

My 627 Pinto has had a second factory cylinder re-chambered to 9x23 Winchester.
The second cylinder has also been machined for moon clips. This setup allows
9x23, 38 Super, 38ACP, 9MM and 380ACP all to be safely chambered, fired and
extracted from the modified second cylinder.

The original unfluted cylinder can be swapped in for 38 Special or 357 Magnum.

I have also opened up the cylinder on several S&W 940s to accept 38Super.
However this one is pictured with 9MM ammunition in the moon clips

 

[Nevada Ed]

9mm case length .754" ...........124gr at 1150 to 1200 fps
38 Super case length .865 " ..... 124gr at 1280 to 1385 fps but Buffalo has the 124gr at 1450 fps c/o a 5" barrel if you need to try them............

However these bullets are .355 diamiter and the .38 JHP is usually .357 diamiter so you might get gas blow by and accuracy might not be that good.

I tried 38 cases with the 9mm bullets and after testing five test loads, I kept them for the 9mm due to poor accuracy at 25 yards, and I just don't think a .355 factory load in a .357 gun is the right thing to do.

 

[swampersand]

In keeping with the "if it fits, shoot it" crowd; when I was a kid we used to shoot 12 Ga out of what must have been 3/4" iron pipe. No problem, still have all fingers and both eyes. We used BB guns to strike the primer and it was easy to keep score. Chamber pressures were automatically normalized by the ejection of the spent hulls and it was a good educational experience in understanding Newtons third law of motion. We were also smart enough (barely) to not stand directly behind the barrel.

Several (many) decades later we know it was not as smart as it was fun.

On the serious side, why not stick to established cartridge interchangeability standards (i.e. 38 spcl in .357 etc) and not push the envelope unless you are schooled in balistics, gunsmithing and medicine.

 

[Old TexMex]

You could just make it all an excuse to go out and buy a cool lookin' old world Colt Government model chambered for it and pretend you're a G-man from the 20s knockin' down gangsters instead of all that zombie nonsense. Just a thought.

Or pretend to be a Mexican Federale, after you get some pearl and gold inlayed virgin of guadalupe grips, and a guyabera shirt!
38 SOOPAIRR

 

[jaymoore]

The only drama I can think of (If the rounds will chamber easily) aside from possible misfires is if you have some old .38 Auto rounds. Some have 0.360-0.361" diameter bullets for the early Colts. It seems Winchester was about the last manufacturer to use the larger Dia. bullets. (I still have a very few for the various old Colt autos as accuracy is rather better than with the non-corrosive primed Remington and UMC brand vintage .38 Auto rounds.)

 

[M2MikeGolf]

I had a 4" 686 rechambered to .38 Super and also had the cylinder milled to accept moonclips. Works great. Someone has already pointed out the .38 Super has a larger OD than .357 cases, but the bullet specs are the opposite. The .38 Super takes .356" bullets vs. .357 for .38/.357 cartridges. These differences are immaterial if you shoot jacketed bullets. Lead bullets would require trial and error testing.

It is silly to fret about the minor difference in pressure for .38 Super vs. .357 Magnum. That's the kind of comment you get from 'armchair' shooters.

I hope that you are not insinuating that I am an armchair shooter. Minor differences in pressure can result in serious consequences. I've learned that through decades of work as an Infantry Master gunner, in the classroom, on the ranges and in combat zones. I've qualified, fired, worked on or owned a variety of weapons both as a civilian and as a soldier and was highly proficient in military grade weapons to include the 7.62mm machine gun and 25mm cannon. I also worked for two years in a reputable dealership that imported high end hunting rifles and reloaded ammuntion for house designed large caliber belted magnums under the close supervision of a gunsmith that now has his own reputable business. One of the things I learned from him is how important cutting chambers are, and what a slight difference in dimension can make. My job at that factory was test firing (for accuracy) high power rifles, of calibers from .22 LR to .460 Weatherby. I know what I'm talking about, and did not learn it from watching TV or reading magazines. I've seen chambers explode, stocks crack and bolts shatter due to a variety of issues, and was usually invloved in helping determine what caused such issues. Almost all were pressure related in some way shape or form. The M2 .50 is famous for such issues as the headspace must be set by the firer, and is often set incorrectly. It is a similar issue to using ammuntion which does not fit a chamber correctly and can result in serious injury to the firer; the M2 has caused at least one fatality that I know of personally due to incorrect headspace.

Go ahead and chamber ammunition in a chamber not designed for it if you wish, it really doesn't matter to me. Unless you are weapons designer and master gunsmith and work these kinds of dimensions and pressure tests for a living, one should never advise others to undertake a dangerous practice, and firing ammunition in a chamber not designed for it is one of the tops. If silly equals safe, then I've had about thirty years of experience in silliness and no injuries.

In the end, I think having a box of .38 super would either be a good excuse to help out someone who owns one, or finding an old G-man gun for the collection.

 

[DWalt]

"The only drama I can think of (If the rounds will chamber easily) aside from possible misfires is if you have some old .38 Auto rounds. Some have 0.360-0.361" diameter bullets for the early Colts. It seems Winchester was about the last manufacturer to use the larger Dia. bullets."

I'd like to know where that information came from. Right from the very beginning of the .38 ACP, the bullet diameter has ALWAYS been .354-.356, never .360 or more. You must be referring to the .38 S&W vs. the .38 Special.

 

[ma deuce]

However, since there isn't a zombie in site, and I have several cases of 38 special and 357 at my disposal, the 38 super will be sold.

Or, as someone else suggested, just buy a gun in .38 Super. .38 Super was Colt's "other" factory chambering for the 1911. Several manufacturers still make guns for it. In particular, Rock Island Arsenal makes a 1911 in that chambering that's relatively inexpensive and has a decent reputation for dependability.

 

[FloridaFlier]

RULE OF HOLES
The Number 1 and only rule of holes is: "When you're in one, stop digging." You bought the wrong ammo for a new gun. Sell it and move on. In the future, until you know a bit more about shooting, buy from your local gun store and soak up the free advice that comes with every purchase.

 

[DWalt]

If it fits in your .357 chambers it will work in your .357. It won't blow up or damage your revolver. Proper ammunition will probably perform better. That's the whole story of .38 Super in a .357. There is nothing more that needs to be said.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

For what it's worth, I asked S&W for their view on the matter and their (email) answer is as follows:

You cannot shoot .38 Super from a .357 magnum. This is an automatic round the diameter and length are both significantly different enough (being much closer to a 9mm) that the cylinder would have to be re-chambered to properly shoot these bullets.

From a liability standpoint, it might be important for some to know S&W's viewpoint.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Most of us here never had any doubt what Smith & Wesson would say about using ammo in a gun not designed for it.

Good thing Elmer Keith and other great gun/load tinkerers didn't let such emails stop them!

 

[safearm]

My $.02 is even though the .38 Super will fit in a .357 Magnum/.38Special chamber, it's best not to fire it unless it's the only option you have or you have had the cylinder modified (like colt saa) to accept the cartridge. I had a 642 cylinder modified for 9mm moonclips and it shot 9mm +P (a higher pressure round) just fine, even though the barrel was marked .38 Special +P.
Also, the semi-rim on the .38 Super is so small, I could see the extractor star not having enough grip surface to reliably extract the cases.
Factory .38 Super ammo is loaded to pretty conservative pressures, especially ammo in the 1150-1250 fps range. Custom loaders, such as Georgia Arms or Buffalo Arms have much higher pressure rounds that should ONLY be used in guns chambered specifcally for .38 Super.
If you still have the case of ammo, PM me with the details and maybe we can make a deal.

 

[ngjandm]

similar situation

I was new to firearms as of about 3 years ago and did a similar mistake. trying to purchase some 5.56 ammo for my AR, I was bidding and did not realize that I purchase 5.7 ammo. so I did the next best thing.....I went out and bought a Five-Seven.