DILEMA SOLVED - old 1974 "dealer reloads" - what to do with them?

[SweetMK]

Watch the movie "RED" with Bruce Willis,,

At the beginning, he uses a cast iron skillet, some cooking oil,, on the stove, then add some bullets,,,

 

[Golphin]

38 +P loads call for a max of 3.9 max of Bullseye. I would not even shoot those in my Ruger Blackhawk. Pull them or dispose of them before someone gets hurt is my opinion. Not worth messing around shooting those the down side is way to severe.

 

[mstem]

Educated idiot so stupid stuff. For instance, an engineer I worked for loaded HOT 357 Magnum loads in 38 Special cases & was firing them in a Model 15!!! Don't know if her ever blew the gun or not because he soon got transferred to another plant.

 

[cmansguns]

Dilema Solved - gone from my stash

Just to close this thread out and maybe help others who have questionable ammo but don't reload.

A Forum member PM'd me and said ship the rounds to him because he takes care of pulling bullets and taking care of old ammo three times a week in exchange for free range time. He also tipped me that Fed-Ex allows ammo to be shipped via Ground at least domestically (CONUS) so I packed the two boxes up in a plain corrugated cardboard box, placed the ORM-D white-on-blue stickers and trotted off to Fed-Ex. Lo and behold...they were less then UPS price for similar shipment 2 years ago, and their central hub is only a couple miles from my house!

The reason I titled this thread "dealer reloads" in the first post was because when I moved here in 1988, I was told that some (not all) LGS (and there were many in those days) would sell "dealer reloads" in their stores with a range in house for customer use. One colleague of mine told me that those questionable 5.1 grain Bullseye may have been sold to the owner of that pristine Model 14-3. Anyway...I've personally never seen a dealer sell reloads in any of the States I've lived in for the past 55 years of firearms involvement, and I think the liability issue (especially in today's environment of legal beagles lurking around every tree) would outweigh any possible small profit to be gained.

So be it......thanks for all the replies and tips, as more than 1 commented.....inadvertent use of those overloaded 38 Specials could have spelled disaster.

 

[mikerjf]

38Sp 158g at 1400 fps? Label might as well just say BOOM!

 

[max503]

I might put them in a fire then look for the lead in the cold ashes.

 

[Laketime]

Just to close this thread out and maybe help others who have questionable ammo but don't reload.

A Forum member PM'd me and said ship the rounds to him because he takes care of pulling bullets and taking care of old ammo three times a week in exchange for free range time. He also tipped me that Fed-Ex allows ammo to be shipped via Ground at least domestically (CONUS) so I packed the two boxes up in a plain corrugated cardboard box, placed the ORM-D white-on-blue stickers and trotted off to Fed-Ex. Lo and behold...they were less then UPS price for similar shipment 2 years ago, and their central hub is only a couple miles from my house!

The reason I titled this thread "dealer reloads" in the first post was because when I moved here in 1988, I was told that some (not all) LGS (and there were many in those days) would sell "dealer reloads" in their stores with a range in house for customer use. One colleague of mine told me that those questionable 5.1 grain Bullseye may have been sold to the owner of that pristine Model 14-3. Anyway...I've personally never seen a dealer sell reloads in any of the States I've lived in for the past 55 years of firearms involvement, and I think the liability issue (especially in today's environment of legal beagles lurking around every tree) would outweigh any possible small profit to be gained.

So be it......thanks for all the replies and tips, as more than 1 commented.....inadvertent use of those overloaded 38 Specials could have spelled disaster.

At least four dealers in Northern Ma would sell reloaded ammunition. Thats where I would get my reloads for range use.

 

[cxm]

Not Sure They Are Handloads

I can't say for certain because the pictures are not great and only show one side... BUT... from looking at the one cartridge in the photo I don't think that is a re-load. Here's why:

1. The cannalure in the case body is not flattened. A +P round will almost certainly flatten the cannalure a lot...

2. The case does not show any die marks on the case body... I have never seen a die that does not leave sizing marks on the case.

3. The bullet sure looks factory to me.

It may be there are re-loads mixed in the box... but a check of the case heads should tell if therer are.

If you can post some clear photos of more than one cartridge it would help answering the question.

FWIW

Chuck

First let me say I am NOT a reloader, just never found the time or money and now retired can find the time...but just not the desire to get into it properly, and my opinion is that a half-baked entry into reloading could spell disaster for me and/or my firearms.

With the above said I'll also state that I have never shot anybody's reloads in my guns. I always use factory ammo and have had years of fun so not changing now.

I've got literally thousands of rounds stashed that will last me years so I'm not worried over the shortage either.

Anyway.......to the questions, geared towards those of you that DO reload, and I am sure you do it very religiously because your safety depends on it.

1. With a Model 14 purchase years ago the sale came from a non-gun person trying to dispose of his dad's stuff. Along with the gun came 2 boxes of Remington ammo. One box was 95 grain, Semi-jacketed, hollow point. This box was given to another ammo collector on this forum years ago simply because of the labelling on the other box...I didn't trust it to be as the factory box said.

The box I still have has a "reloaders sticker" stuck on one of the end flaps and it says: "5.1 grains Bullseye, CCI SP primer, 1400 fps". The factory box end flap reads 158 gr LRN.

So my basic question 1 is does this claimed velocity match up to anything you guys see or have ever loaded for? ALL of my stash of factory ammo in 38 (Remington UMC, American Eagle, Fiocchi, Winchester, Magtech, PMC Bronze, etc.) is at 800, 810 and these are mostly 130, 132 gr. FMJ, or 158 gr. FMC-F at 755 fps.

Question 2; What to do with this stuff? I don't want to just dump questionable loaded rounds on anyone. i.e. if I won't shoot it....I don't think anyone else should either, which leads to question 3: Is it even safe in your expert opinion to shoot at the listed charge (don't know how the reloader came up with 1400 fps).

I hate to invest in a bullet puller just to dump the powder and dump the empty brass in the range bucket my next trip but is that's the only safe way....I'll probably go that way.

Sorry for the long epistle but this box of 50, dated 1974, sits in my stash of 38 and I really don't want sons or daughters grabbing it by mistake some day, so I'm going to dispose of it some way.

P.S. If there had been 1 round missing from the box I would have surmised maybe the guy (or gal) blew up their 38 revolver, and that is why the Model 14 was unfired and pristine but alas all 5o look alike.

Thanks in advance from you expert reloaders to a non-reloader.
Any of you in or around central Virginia can have this box for free if you want to come get it. The box of 95 grain that I sent to another collector cost $10.98 for UPS but that was when I worked at a company that had twice daily UPS pickups and I could just reimburse the company.

 

[austintexas]

I don't think there is such a thing as dealer reloads. Every gun shop I know sells reloads taken in with guns will sell them as components. That said our LGS and gunshows sell re-manufactured ammo. I think Black hills and Hornaday started out that way, using once fired brass to manufacture their ammo,
SWCA 892

 

[Engineer1911]

The "Load Answer" actual data

The green Remington "factory" ammo box was loaded with 3.5 ± 0.2 grains of powder (5 rounds checked). Each individual cartridge weighed 229.3 ± 0.6 grains. My conclusion is that those rounds can be fired in any 357 Magnum revolver safely.

The red Remington "Empty Cases" box was loaded with 3.4 ± 0.1 grains of powder (not 5.1 gr on reloader's label). Each individual cartridge weighed 230.1 ± 0.8 grains. My conclusion is that those rounds can be fired in any 357 Magnum revolver safely.

The indoor range that I work at has loaded and sold over 200K of handgun ammunition since mid-March for range use only. There are no "Out the door" ammo sales. The inventory of powder and large primers is sufficient. Small pistol primers are adequate if the next 1 million primer shipment arrives by early to mid-September as forecasted.

Normal frantic reloading activities will now resume for 9 MM and 38 Spl.

EDIT: These loads would be safe to shoot in a 38 Spl revolver. But I would rather shoot them in a heavier L-frame than a lighter K-frame with the 158 grain bullets. My preferred load for K-frames is 148 grain wadcutters and 2.8 to 3.0 grains of powder.

 

[cmansguns]

Thanks Bob (Engineer1911) for the facts of this old ammo

Now I am glad I sent this ammo off to you rather than just "test my luck" by running those green box "factory" rounds through one of my older 38's (Model 10, 14, 36, 60, 637, or a 1942 Victory).

As I said previously, the man I got the Model 14-3 from never even knew the revolver existed in his Dad's stuff. The father had died long ago, mother too, son inheirited the house and everything in it, and years later when cleaning out the attic found a paper shopping bag containing the gun, an unused Buckheimer holster, a wooden presentation case, and the ammo..now sent to you and you found it OK for 357 Magnum use.

The man didn't know how his father got the gun, whether gift from someone, bought it,???? or even when. The guns serial number turned out to be 1974 so the ammo reloads, dated July 1974 seemed to fit but the 1400 fps was way off anybody I know's chart. I did think the green box appeared factory so I have been tempted time to time to send some of those "factory" rounds downrange from one of my 38"s.

Glad I didn't.....Had I known what you found out I probably would have run them through either my Model 27-2, Model 28 or maybe the Model 66.

Thanks for the investigation and posting the results....just goes to show: Don't trust any reloads except your own!

 

[vipermd]

A reckless person might dispose of the questioned ammo by firing them in a .357 Mag, preferably a Ruger Blackhawk. A careful person would pull the bullets.

I agree. Due to a scale error and a novice loader loading the powder I have fired 7.5 gr Bullseye in 38 case with 158 SWC. Melting the bullets, split cases, stuck cases, we ended up pulling down about 990 rounds. They were fired in S&W 19 back in 1986. We got lucky!! Be Safe,