Diplomatic security service 19's

[18DAI]

Any former Diplomatic security service officers here?

What dash number model 19's did you use? I've seen 19-5 2.5 and 4" barrels. Most of those were in a matt black. I also have seen 4" matt black 19-7's, supposedly former DSS guns. Were any of these model 19's traditional blue, or were they all in a matt finish?

I read where the USMC also had ordered a large number of model 19's, to use for guarding embassies. Any details on those model 19's?

Anyone lettered their matt black model 19?

Regards 18DAI.

 

[pogo2]

Have one of those

I bought a matte black 19-5 with 2.5 inch barrel about a year ago. It was from a collection and was new and unfired in the box. It came with Pachmeyer rubber grips. I presume it was a Diplomatic Security Service gun, or possibly Connecticut State Police, based on what I read in the SCSW. I suppose I should get a letter from S&W on this, but haven't done that yet.

I put some Ahrends grips on it for the photos, but don't intend to fire the gun. The second photo shows it next to a blue 19-5 for contrast.

 

[2Guns]

DSS Mod 19s

I am a current DSS S/A, have been for the last 23 years. When I was issued mine back in 1986 it was the matt blue variety, sorry don't know the dash number and it has long since been replaced by our issued Sig Sauers many years ago. In our safe at the Embassy that I am current serving at we also have a polished blue Mod 19 2.5" (pinned and recessed, but don't know the dash number off the top of my head) and a Mod 66-1 (I believe maybe even a no dash) 2.5". these weapons are completely out of service domestically, the only place you will find them still in our inventories is overseas. The Department lets us keep them on the books, if we sent them back they would go into a vault for eventual disposal, so it is better to keep them "hidden" out in the field. Regards 2Guns

 

[18DAI]

Beautiful 19-5 pogo2. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Thanks for the info 2Guns. Are those snubbies in the vault still used on or off duty? Regards 18DAI.

 

[Butler]

DSS 19's

Hi 18DAI

I had both 2.5 and 4 inch. The 2.5 was gloss and I think it was a dash 4. The 4 inch was matte and I think it as a dash 5. This was in the 87 to 89 time frame. The 2.5's were mostly for RSO's and the Marines got the 4 inchers starting in about Summer of 87.

Butler

 

[Texas Star]

What is RSO, and which ammo was issued? Were Marines, in particuar, provided govt. issue .38 ball?

Thanks,

T-Star

 

[T. McIntyre]

RSO= Regional security officer

Can not help on type of ammo issued.

 

[2Guns]

When I first started with DSS in 1986, we carried 110 gr +p .38 special rounds in the 2.5" Mod 19. At some point we stopped using those light rounds and we were issued 125 gr Nyclad rounds, which the agency used until the Mod 19s were phased out in favor of the Sig Sauer P228 9 mm. I for one was glad we made the switch as the ammo had a bad tendency to "spit" unburnt powder and had nasty habit of leaving grains under the ejection star that could bind up your weapon.

The MSGs at our Embassies carried the same rounds in their State issued 4" Mod 19s. Although at most Posts back in those days the MSGs also had access to 2.5" Mod 19 to carry when they were doing plain clothes hotel floor security for Cabinet level VIP visits.

Regards
2Guns

 

[DMark]

.... I for one was glad we made the switch as the ammo had a bad tendency to "spit" unburnt powder and had nasty habit of leaving grains under the ejection star that could bind up your weapon....

2Guns,

Great info from your posts. Did both .38 loads leave the same unburnt grains under the star?

Thanks,

 

[2Guns]

The 125 gr. Nyclads gave good service, it was the 110 gr +p that left the unburnt powder under the star. I love Smiths, but for a duty weapon we are better served carrying the Sig. More magazine capacity and ammo interchangebility with our subguns. I would prefer to carry a 1911 .45, but would be very happy with a Glock, Sig, or Springfield Armory polymer gun, but neither option is likely to happen anytime soon. Regards 2Guns

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

When did USMC Embassy Duty carry 357's?

When I was in in the mid 1980's, Marines assigned to embassy duty were issued pencil-barrel 4" Model 10's with FMJ .38 special ammo.
(I didn't serve on embassy duty, but several guys came to my unit from their time on embassy duty).
I also know they had Ruger Mini-14's in the inventory as well.

 

[Texas Star]

Some Marine embassy guards also had Ruger .38's. I think the Service-Six.

Apparently, it depended on the embassy what was in their inventory.

 

[Hoplophile]

MSGs

Through the 70s, MSGs carried clapped-out Smith Victory Models. Circa 1980, State bought the Ruger Service Six for MSGs, long after my time in an embassy.

In the 60s we were issued M41 ball (130 gr RNJ bullet at maybe 800 fps if the barrel-cylinder gap on your Victory Model wasn't too great). For practice we were issued 148 gr flatnose wadcutter.

When assigned to personal security details for upper echelon FSOs taking road trips into the bush, or for visiting VIPs, I would carry one of the embassy's commercial Model 10s, 4" pencil barrel, round butt (still my favorite revolver). This was the 60s, so M41 ball was as good as anything available. Occasionally I would carry a personal 1911 (if no one was checking), but still with ball ammo.

In 1968 I worked a trip with VP Humphrey -- the SS agent assigned to supervise the two Marines aboard was a field guy attached for the trip, not VP detail. He carried a Smith 39. More ball ammo!

Joe W
LtCol USMC(ret)
then-Sgt, Addis Ababa 1966-68

 

[Bat Guano]

When I was getting out of the service in '68 I had an inquiry from DSS as to whether I was interested in a job there. Didn't follow up on it but always wondered if I would have liked it. Wound up going with another agency, so my GI time counted towards retirement after all. Just one of those forks in the road...

 

[Butler]

The Last Night Standing

It was in the summer of 1987. I was in MSG school in the fall of 86 and qualified with a M10, some qualed with Rugers. DOS bought the 4 inchers in the spring of 87, the school got them first and then they trickled out to post. I was in Sri Lanka and we got ours late summer 87. When I went to my 2nd post Alexandra, Egypt in 88 I found the peverous DetCmdr there had not issued them and the Marines were still carring M10s and Rugers. I issued them right away.

Butler

 

[gtoppcop]

2 Guns was my RSO in Stockholm 1994-95. We carried the 19-5s that were specially made for the US Department of State for the DSS Agents and the Marines. They had a Service Blue (or matte in the 2-1/2 inch guns), black sights and a Round Butt.

We were issued (and practiced with) the Federal 125gr +P NYCLAD hollow-point. That round would do about 925-950 fps out of the 4-inch barrel.

The guns were very nice. We expended a considerable amount of ammunition to practice at the FBI Academy. I believe we shot about 2500-3000 rounds per MSG student.

I had owned 3 Model 19s prior to my first enlistment in 1990, so they felt like an old friend. Many of the students felt underarmed with the Model 19s. I didn't. Many of our Instructor Advisors were taught at Gunsite in the use of the Combat Magnum. I was the Class 3-93 Top Shooter.

2 Guns got my beloved 4-inch Model 25-5 when he rotated back home in early 1995. It's the one he had customized.

Hope all is well, Ed!

 

[DD357]

I have 1 of those 2.5" DSS 19's - it's my everyday carry gun. It is a fine shooter.

 

[WCCPHD]

I have one too

Not 100% but not too bad for $250.

 

[gtoppcop]

WCCPHD,

AYY-AYZ Serial Prefix? If so, it's a DSS gun. As I stated before, the RSOs and Det Commanders would carry these while the rest of us in uniform carried the 4-inch guns.

In China, I carried my issue Model 19 (with Hogue R/B Monogrips) in my personally-owned Kramer Michigan State Police Paddle and on one of his horsehide belts. Safariland COMP III speedloaders were carried in my strong side sport coat/suit coat outside pocket. Never felt under-armed with it.

Wish Federal would still make the 125gr NYCLAD +P (the same bullet they use in the standard pressure Premium load). The +Ps we used for duty were very accurate in those guns and had some punch.

What do you have as your load? I like today's Golden Saber +P in the Special. Wonderful round.

 

[WCCPHD]

WCCPHD,

AYY-AYZ Serial Prefix? If so, it's a DSS gun. As I stated before, the RSOs and Det Commanders would carry these while the rest of us in uniform carried the 4-inch guns.

In China, I carried my issue Model 19 (with Hogue R/B Monogrips) in my personally-owned Kramer Michigan State Police Paddle and on one of his horsehide belts. Safariland COMP III speedloaders were carried in my strong side sport coat/suit coat outside pocket. Never felt under-armed with it.

Wish Federal would still make the 125gr NYCLAD +P (the same bullet they use in the standard pressure Premium load). The +Ps we used for duty were very accurate in those guns and had some punch.

What do you have as your load? I like today's Golden Saber +P in the Special. Wonderful round.

Serial number begins with "ANP." If S&W numbered them in order then this would have been an earlier one. Although I cannot find it now, I seem to remember a thread speaking to several "runs" of them.

As far as loads, unfortunately like many of my guns, this one has never been fired since I acquired it.

A friend of mine recently found one that is as close to NIB as I have ever seen. He had to pay more but it is absolutely beautiful.