Discreet vs Concealed Carry

[Revolver M65]

I am a young guy from Illinois were gun laws are very strict. I am currently looking for colleges and a retired cop buddy of mine got a new teaching job a Washburn university in Topeka Kansas and several of his students’ Criminal justice students as young as 19 conceal carry. But in the city there are (no carry) signs all over the place. The point of this is that I believe open carry and conceal carry have a place. That is where you and other civilians feel most comfortable with them. And if you don't want people with weapons on your property or business put up a sign or tell them I sure that if any of you were asked you would gladly comply.


Greg

 

[zzclancy]

Bottom line: If they don't know you have a gun you have the edge. You choose when to bring the gun into action. I don't want you to know till your looking at the end of my barrel.

 

[hatt]

Civilian open carry in public is just wrong in my opinion. When I see someone open carrying I expect to see a badge of some kind. Open carry says “I’m here to protect and serve.” Civilian carry is for personal protection. I know there are rare exceptions when a civilian may have to intervene on behalf of others, but odds are that will never happen and being canceled would likely be an advantage is such a case.

What other Rights do you practice in secret?

 

[oldman45]

I am staying out of this because all know how I feel based on past experiences.

However I read in a few postings that people avoid OC due to questions from people. What kind of questions are you being asked?

We have open carry here and the few that do ask questions is in the direction of what type gun, where to shoot, which type should they buy, etc. None of which I would mind answering.

 

[dinooch]

I was always taught that the "threat" shouldn't know you have a gun untill they've been shot. That being said, in "The Peoples Republic of New York" you are not allowed to open carry unless you are hunting and out of public areas while hunting. Go to a gas station or resturant you better cover it up or leave it in the car. How many times have you watched a movie and the person pulls a gun and gets disarmed? Open carry, if legal, would not be an option for me personally. Why draw attention or become a magnet for the deranged? Avoid trouble at all costs but end a threat with element of surprise if need be.

 

[oldman45]

I was always taught that the "threat" shouldn't know you have a gun untill they've been shot. That being said, in "The Peoples Republic of New York" you are not allowed to open carry unless you are hunting and out of public areas while hunting. Go to a gas station or resturant you better cover it up or leave it in the car. How many times have you watched a movie and the person pulls a gun and gets disarmed? Open carry, if legal, would not be an option for me personally. Why draw attention or become a magnet for the deranged? Avoid trouble at all costs but end a threat with element of surprise if need be.

Using common sense, even for a drunk, druggie or idiot, would you approach a knowned to be armed person with the intention of harm? Criminals have long been known to attack the unarmed, aged, physically challenged, weak or defensless. I do not remember ever working a case where a known armed person was attacked or even challenged.

Think about it.

 

[dinooch]

Using common sense, even for a drunk, druggie or idiot, would you approach a knowned to be armed person with the intention of harm? Criminals have long been known to attack the unarmed, aged, physically challenged, weak or defensless. I do not remember ever working a case where a known armed person was attacked or even challenged.

Think about it.

Sir, you obviously have more experience being a law enforcement specialist. I have alot of training and am no "spring chicken" by any means. One should be able to go about their business without the threat of attack, but in the real world I know that's not possible. Let's just say in New York open carry is not an option but I still stand against it. I respect your experience and agree with what you stated.

 

[Engine 21]

Using common sense, even for a drunk, druggie or idiot, would you approach a knowned to be armed person with the intention of harm? Criminals have long been known to attack the unarmed, aged, physically challenged, weak or defensless. I do not remember ever working a case where a known armed person was attacked or even challenged.

Think about it.

I did think about it and your wrong. Banks have been robbed with armed security in the building. Brinks trucks have been robbed with armed security operating the vehicle. Police Officers have been challanged, shot and killed. Point being - events have a way of "shooting holes" in blanket statements. Those events while not common - do happen. IF a determined criminal decides to challange a person it is in the best interest of the intended victim to be armed and add the element of surprise. If the victim is carrying in the open
he is the first obstacle to be addressed by the perp - either by shooting the victim or disarming the victim and then he can decide whether to shoot him/her or not. Need proof - the shoot out in Detroit where the perp went into a police station and started a gun fight. Just because you show your armed does not make you bullet proof. It may cause a perp to hesitate - but if determined or drugged up he will deal with the first threat - you. Being discreet and concealed goes along way should you be involved in that terrible scenario.

 

[oldman45]

I did think about it and your wrong. Banks have been robbed with armed security in the building. Brinks trucks have been robbed with armed security operating the vehicle. Police Officers have been challanged, shot and killed. Point being - events have a way of "shooting holes" in blanket statements. Those events while not common - do happen. IF a determined criminal decides to challange a person it is in the best interest of the intended victim to be armed and add the element of surprise. If the victim is carrying in the open
he is the first obstacle to be addressed by the perp - either by shooting the victim or disarming the victim and then he can decide whether to shoot him/her or not. Need proof - the shoot out in Detroit where the perp went into a police station and started a gun fight. Just because you show your armed does not make you bullet proof. It may cause a perp to hesitate - but if determined or drugged up he will deal with the first threat - you. Being discreet and concealed goes along way should you be involved in that terrible scenario.

I was not talking about banks, armored cars, military depots or such. We are talking about iindividuals. Discreet carry at least offers a better chance of getting to a gun. Any motion in a bank or such during a robbery by one or more individuals will attract attention. Also in such places, the odds are there will be an accomplice that is not known to those in side whose sole job is to watch for movement to a cell phone, gun or escape. While a person focuses on one or two perps, it is the ringer that will focus on the person.

I referred to someone being robbed in a parking lot or other public place. The odds of individual robbery is greater than being in a bank or other place at the wrong time.

 

[hatt]

I did think about it and your wrong. Banks have been robbed with armed security in the building. Brinks trucks have been robbed with armed security operating the vehicle. Police Officers have been challanged, shot and killed. Point being - events have a way of "shooting holes" in blanket statements. Those events while not common - do happen. IF a determined criminal decides to challange a person it is in the best interest of the intended victim to be armed and add the element of surprise. If the victim is carrying in the open
he is the first obstacle to be addressed by the perp - either by shooting the victim or disarming the victim and then he can decide whether to shoot him/her or not. Need proof - the shoot out in Detroit where the perp went into a police station and started a gun fight. Just because you show your armed does not make you bullet proof. It may cause a perp to hesitate - but if determined or drugged up he will deal with the first threat - you. Being discreet and concealed goes along way should you be involved in that terrible scenario.

Why don't you show some proof? If known to be armed citizens are being systematically targeted, it'll be easy to post a number of stories.

You can't even show a pattern where police are being targeted because they're armed or police. They're usually targeted because they're trying to initiate some sort of action against the perp. Sure lightning strikes. You can't operate around the possibility of some rare occurrence. We do know with certainly that criminals tend to go for easier, weaker targets so logic would dictate that a sensible angle would be to appear less weak and less easy if your goal is to less of a target by crimianls.

 

[Engine 21]

hatt;
I'm not saying live in fear. I am saying I, personally would chose to be concealed. I believe it is to my benefit to carry that way.I just don't want people , good or evil to know I'm carrying - it's my business, not anyone elses.

As for proof, check the shootout in the Detroit Police Precinct this year. The prep walked in and already targeted officers in the station. Five officers shot - all survived. Now the Detroit P.D. is installing bullet proof glass in all Precincts. I'm sure if you google the story you'll find it.

 

[hatt]

hatt;
I'm not saying live in fear. I am saying I, personally would chose to be concealed. I believe it is to my benefit to carry that way.I just don't want people , good or evil to know I'm carrying - it's my business, not anyone elses.

As for proof, check the shootout in the Detroit Police Precinct this year. The prep walked in and already targeted officers in the station. Five officers shot - all survived. Now the Detroit P.D. is installing bullet proof glass in all Precincts. I'm sure if you google the story you'll find it.

Nothing wrong with personally choosing to carry concealed, just don't try to make a case that everyone should think like you when that case clearly can't be backed up with facts.

The Detroit story doesn't tell me anything other than there was a nutcase in Detroit that day.

 

[roscoguy]

Why don't you show some proof? If known to be armed citizens are being systematically targeted, it'll be easy to post a number of stories.

You can't even show a pattern where police are being targeted because they're armed or police. They're usually targeted because they're trying to initiate some sort of action against the perp. Sure lightning strikes. You can't operate around the possibility of some rare occurrence. We do know with certainly that criminals tend to go for easier, weaker targets so logic would dictate that a sensible angle would be to appear less weak and less easy if your goal is to less of a target by crimianls.

Calm down a bit. I didn't read anywhere in this discussion where it was claimed that "known to be armed citizens" OR police are "being systematically targeted". The fact remains however, that crooks & gang members don't necessarily USE logic when selecting their targets. The incident in Detroit was even given as an example of this. Maybe when selecting an individual target they would prefer an unarmed person. Maybe they'd rather walk up behind you, shoot you in the back of the head & take your expensive piece as a trophy. My point here is that you can't know what a bad guy is thinking.
Certainly occasions exist where open carry is preferable to concealed, but the reverse is also true.

just don't try to make a case that everyone should think like you when that case clearly can't be backed up with facts.

The irony positively drips...

The Detroit story doesn't tell me anything other than there was a nutcase in Detroit that day.

...and they're everywhere. Just read a newspaper from ANY major metropolitan area or anywhere even near the Mexican border. Actually, come to think about it, right there IS a case where police have been "systematically targeted".

 

[Engine 21]

Calm down a bit. I didn't read anywhere in this discussion where it was claimed that "known to be armed citizens" OR police are "being systematically targeted". The fact remains however, that crooks & gang members don't necessarily USE logic when selecting their targets. The incident in Detroit was even given as an example of this. Maybe when selecting an individual target they would prefer an unarmed person. Maybe they'd rather walk up behind you, shoot you in the back of the head & take your expensive piece as a trophy. My point here is that you can't know what a bad guy is thinking.
Certainly occasions exist where open carry is preferable to concealed, but the reverse is also true.

My point exactly, Thank you.

The irony positively drips...

...and they're everywhere. Just read a newspaper from ANY major metropolitan area or anywhere even near the Mexican border. Actually, come to think about it, right there IS a case where police have been "systematically targeted".

My point exactly, Thank you.

 

[ladder13]

My point exactly, Thank you.

Some of us knew exactly what you were saying.

 

[edprof]

Here in Arkansas the test seems to be "Can they actually see the GUN?' instead of "Is it imprinting?"

 

[redlevel]

The irony positively drips...

. . . . .

 

[hatt]

Using some of the logic being presented, playing the lotto is a valid retirement plan. Of course we know in actual practice that would be a poor plan but it does happens all the time. Much more than anyone being targeted by criminals because they're armed.

 

[vista461]

Using common sense, even for a drunk, druggie or idiot, would you approach a knowned to be armed person with the intention of harm? Criminals have long been known to attack the unarmed, aged, physically challenged, weak or defensless. I do not remember ever working a case where a known armed person was attacked or even challenged.

Think about it.

Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint - TODAY'S TMJ4
Open Carrier gets his gun stolen at gun point. OC guy thinks he was targeted BECAUSE he was OC and was going to stop doing it.

 

[rpbcab]

Greetings. I carry and I sometimes carry concealed and sometimes open. During open carry I have only been spoken to 2 times about the gun, once while talking to a car salesman about a Jeep, the Mail man in his post office jeep stopped and said "do you have real bullets in that there gun", it was his way of starting a conversation about guns and he told me about his guns. The other time was at Gander Mountain in Jackson, Tennessee and the clerk behind the counter was filling out paper work for a gentleman buying a gun, I was paying for my new Kimber and I was carrying my M&P 9c open, I heard the clerk say to his customer, about my gun, "I would never carry openly as I don't want the bad guys to know that I'm carrying". I thought about making a comment to him but I just took a deep breath and went on about MY OWN BUSINESS.... If "God Forbid" I do get shot first for carrying open then I hope all you concealed only guys are there to draw fast and shoot straight and keep the thug from shooting me again. Then thank me for holding his attention for a few seconds while you draw and shoot.