Do older Smith Revolvers poorly???

[herbie1]

I stumbled upon something interesting (I think) on the Buffalo Bore website.
They indicate that newer S&W revolvers shoot faster that the older ones.
They show a Mt. Gun 4" shooting a 125gr faster (1603 fps) than a Model 27 6" (1543 fps).

Why is this so?
What is wrong with the older S&Ws?
How does this compare with other manufacturers such as Colt & Ruger? Are they comparable to the new Smiths or the old ones?

http://www.buffalobore.com/ind...product_detail&p=103

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The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo.
You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels.
The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.


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2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps
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[Vulcan Bob]

Each firearm, hangun or rifle is a world unto itself. You can pull ten identical same model new firearms off the production line one after the other and you will have velocity spread's larger than the one's you have seen in your chart. There are many variances unique to each firearm that can and will affect velocity's. I can see however that the new gun's have tighter tolerances such as barrel cylinder gap that may give it an advantage in speed. I have seen in my own gun's identical model and caliber gun's except for barrel length, the shorter barrel was faster than the longer barrel gun. In my opinion "everyone has one !", there is nothing at all wrong with the old gun's.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I have read Buffalo Bores website many times. Tim Sundles is a very knowledegable guy, and tests all kinds of guns, old and new. The new versions consistantly outrun the older ones, and he uses a lot of guns for his testing.



I believe that some of this is due to the fact that Smith has tightened up their throats in recent years, making them much closer to actual bore diameter. They had tended to run too large in the past. When they are the same as the actual bore diameter, not as much of the expanding gas blows out past the side of the bullet as it passes through the throat, resulting in higher velocity.

The other thing that may be contributing to this, is the new style of rifling. It is smoother looking when compared to the older cut style of rifling. I have read in Handloader Magazine that it is EDM rifling, but my buddy Flat top says Smith told him it is CDM rifling. Whichever it is, it gives a rather rounded looking junction between the bottom, side of the land where it transitions into the groove. It is also more rounded at the top corners of the lands. That will lead to less friction/drag, which equals higher velocity.

I have no scientific proof here, and this is just my opinion, but I believe that I'm correct in my assesment.

 

[herbie1]

How would the newer smiths compare with newer rugers?

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

In my experience firing them across my Oehler 35P, they both give about the same performance.

Also, there's not enough difference between the older Smiths and the newer ones to even blink at, when it comes to practicality and performance on target, whether that is paper, or game. I used to worry about getting every foot per second that I could. I finally wised up, and realized that you only need so much speed, with so much bullet weight and diameter, to get the job done right. So don't be distracted by a margin of 50-100 FPS. It won't make any difference in the real world, so if you find a nice older Smith that you like, buy it!

 

[AKsRule]

I stumbled upon something interesting (I think) on the Buffalo Bore website.
They indicate that newer S&W revolvers shoot faster that the older ones.
They show a Mt. Gun 4" shooting a 125gr faster (1603 fps) than a Model 27 6" (1543 fps).
Why is this so?
What is wrong with the older S&Ws?
How does this compare with other manufacturers such as Colt & Ruger? Are they comparable to the new Smiths or the old ones?
http://www.buffalobore.com/ind...product_detail&p=103

You do understand that they are ADVERTISING a Product they SELL , right?

 

[JD 500]

Originally posted by AKsRule:

I stumbled upon something interesting (I think) on the Buffalo Bore website.
They indicate that newer S&W revolvers shoot faster that the older ones.
They show a Mt. Gun 4" shooting a 125gr faster (1603 fps) than a Model 27 6" (1543 fps).
Why is this so?
What is wrong with the older S&Ws?
How does this compare with other manufacturers such as Colt & Ruger? Are they comparable to the new Smiths or the old ones?
http://www.buffalobore.com/ind...product_detail&p=103

You do understand that they are ADVERTISING a Product they SELL , right?

Buffalo Bore sells ammo, not new smith and wessons. If it were S&W advertising faster shots in thier new guns that would be one thing.

 

[Happy Hunter]

I remember reading Jeff Coopers writings on the Scout rifle that stainless barrels gave higher velocities than the standard steel. I forget how much difference.

I would imagine the newer Smiths were probably stainless and not blue. So that could be part of it.

 

[smith revolver cop]

I know there are some situations where every fps will matter... but if you do the math, there's only a difference of about 3.7% here. Not a lot to get worked up about how 'bad' the old Smiths might be!

 

[Geroge Rodgers]

I have three revolver (SAA) with the same barrel length. There is a difference of 150 ft/sec between the fastest and slowest. The velocity varies directly with the size of the barrel to cylinder gap.

All load velocity data applies only to the test gun that was used. Don't expect to get the same results unless your gun has the same specifications.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

All load velocity data applies only to the test gun that was used. Don't expect to get the same results unless your gun has the same specifications.

Maybe not, but Tim Sundles tests his ammo in real world guns that he buys for himself, not test guns or barrels, so that his customers will have a good idea of what to expect.

His velocities will be very close to what you can expect across your chronograph, given similar barrel lengths. Everyone I have run across that has tried his ammo over a chrono, has had the same results.

 

[harry carey]

chamber dimensions and throats are smaller on newer guns. if you want the older guns to shoot better use unsized cast bullets, like i do. i buy commercial cast bullets. if you buy 5,000 they will make them for you. hand molds are even better as the bullets are larger. generally .360 at the seam. commercial are .3590 at seam and .3585 away from seam. see WG Mitchell article 1983 ? "RIFLE" magazine for more info.

 

[JoeS]

Anybody that wants to get rid of those old poorly made pieces of trash in favor of the new ones please let me know, I'll be generous and give you scrap prices for them.
Hate for anybody to miss out on 75 fps or so.