Well said! have you ever seen on the forum when a member gets a great buy? He'll post pics and say something like "I only paid "X" dollars for it! what a deal." then you'll see it for sale price is now higher marked with "Price is firm" on the same forum
Do they think we're idiots?!
- Thread starter ElKabong
- Start date
Well said! have you ever seen on the forum when a member gets a great buy? He'll post pics and say something like "I only paid "X" dollars for it! what a deal." then you'll see it for sale price is now higher marked with "Price is firm" on the same forum
mkk41
US Veteran
Yes , but there's probably an equal amount of clueless , beligerant , dishonest hucksters behind the counter and tables at gunshows. I always seem to find the ones who try to tell me why I NEED TO BUY some new and improved wonder-weapon , or some state of the art covert , tactical junk I have absolutely NO interest in. Pushy sales pitches and a ton of BS will keep my money in my pocket.
GTbob
Member
And if they don't like a buyer's offer a simple "No" or "The price is firm" should suffice.
I haggle over NEW guns...
I too haggle over new guns.... and I usually get a better deal. When I was shopping for my LCR.357 I asked every one of the dealers what their best price was and every one came down at least $50.00, some as much as $150.00. Then I found it at a LGS for $459.00 on the shelf. I didn't even haggle on that price as they were $75.00 less than the best price I had gotten so far.
Bob
tripledipper
Member
Research, research, especially on forums. In a moment of not thinking about who might do their homework a buyer brags about what they paid in a post long forgotten. I found a few on here which changed my mind about the seller. Fortunately, they are few and far between and are not representative of most of the good folks who list in this classified section.
If you're lucky to have a decent,fair, guy as your LGS and you're a collector,haggling is non productive in the long view.Who does the dealer call when a nice piece comes in? The guy that bring grief and wants a lengthy dance,or the guy that's simply says "Wrap it up.".
Had a pleasant surprise with the opening of a new store last summer. He sells only quality handguns: S&w, Colt, Kahr, H&K, Ruger, etc. NO junk allowed in the store. I always stop in as his inventory moves quickly. Fair prices and he'll wiggle a bit. Thus far, I have purchased two M29s and a superb 1909 Mauser Mountain Carbine.
I think too many dealers/sellers are infected with Gunbrokeritis. They see something similar stupidly priced there and are convinced that their "treasure" is worth that, or even more.
I think too many dealers/sellers are infected with Gunbrokeritis. They see something similar stupidly priced there and are convinced that their "treasure" is worth that, or even more.
cwo4uscgret
US Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2008
- Messages
- 491
- Reaction score
- 1,235
funny but true...
ELKabong, I buy, sell, and trade custom handmade knives.
Around 2001 I attended my first show as a dealer. Making friends with a knifemaker we talked about pricing.
He told me about this one potential buyer, picking up a $350 marked knife, asking what the maker's best price would be. The maker replied $500. In shock the potential buyer said but its marked $350. Then the maker replied but if you gave me $500 for it then it would be a "best price" for the maker!
I have a limited number of gun shops within 45 miles of me; 3 in the city I live in, 2 in the township (counting Gander Mountain), and several more in the area around Port Huron, MI. I generally only shop at one shop, The Hock Shop/Sporting Center of Port Huron, where I've paid quite a few of their bills in the last 8 years. They are the most flexible regarding pricing and finding some "wiggle room."
There is one shop I will go see what they have but more then likely won't buy a gun from them - what you see on the sticker is what they want.
My best solution for this is to go somewhere else and spend my money elsewhere. I don't (most of the time) let an overpriced dealer rent free space in my head any more. As a knife dealer I've had people say I can go to so and so's table and buy the same knife for less - I don't normally wave the BS flag on that; but I do often invite them to go to so and so's table, knowing full well that they aren't going to get a better deal then I did...
ELKabong, I buy, sell, and trade custom handmade knives.
Around 2001 I attended my first show as a dealer. Making friends with a knifemaker we talked about pricing.
He told me about this one potential buyer, picking up a $350 marked knife, asking what the maker's best price would be. The maker replied $500. In shock the potential buyer said but its marked $350. Then the maker replied but if you gave me $500 for it then it would be a "best price" for the maker!
I have a limited number of gun shops within 45 miles of me; 3 in the city I live in, 2 in the township (counting Gander Mountain), and several more in the area around Port Huron, MI. I generally only shop at one shop, The Hock Shop/Sporting Center of Port Huron, where I've paid quite a few of their bills in the last 8 years. They are the most flexible regarding pricing and finding some "wiggle room."
There is one shop I will go see what they have but more then likely won't buy a gun from them - what you see on the sticker is what they want.
My best solution for this is to go somewhere else and spend my money elsewhere. I don't (most of the time) let an overpriced dealer rent free space in my head any more. As a knife dealer I've had people say I can go to so and so's table and buy the same knife for less - I don't normally wave the BS flag on that; but I do often invite them to go to so and so's table, knowing full well that they aren't going to get a better deal then I did...
Dealer will give you the 60% price listed in the Blue Book of Gun Values. That's IF what you are selling or trading is 90%+. They will sell it at the 90% price if the gun is 90%.
Watch Amercian Guns on Discovery. That guy Rich goes and buys a collection worth $50,000 for $25,000. Even something that is highly collectable he won't over pay for it.
Anything is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. The dealer has something you want, you can either work out a deal or walk away. All the people wanting "no lock" guns are what is driving prices up. If I was a dealer, I would be asking a premium because in a short time it will sell even if it cost what a new gun of the same model cost.
Every time there is a post on here boasting about how great the older revolvers are and how crappy the new ones are with the lock, the price on no lock guns goes up. That's good for the guys who have 100 no lock revolvers they want to sell and bad for new buyers who have none and are persuaded the new ones are c r a p.
So for some new guy who really wants a no lock 622, he is not going to argue with the guy over $60. He will pay the $459 and be happy as heck. And the same with the 686 for $600. Because a new 686 still cost more and since he read here all the new guns are c r a p, he will get the old one for the asking price and be happy.
Guys who lust after no locks are their own worst enemy. Especially when they post on the public inter webs about it.
JMHO You should be posting how fabulous the new guns are so people who don't know any better sell of their old junk cheap to get new.
Last edited:
Joe in SC
US Veteran
If possible, I try to know what price range new guns are selling for. Like most everyone else, I try to make a good deal. I ask if the price is
firm. If it is and it's high, I move on.
Same deal with used guns. I try to buy armed with knowledge of the current market. I will try a little harder with a used gun to get a lower price just because of the knowledge I have of LGS's buying and trading practices with used guns.
One thing I will not put up with is a rude clerk or owner. I expect any business to appreciate me spending my money with them and I don't think expecting a pleasant exchange is too much. On the other hand a clerk or owner should not have to put up with rude customers. It works both ways. I stay away from shops that have so much business that they no longer value all their customers.
I don't want to see the local shops go out of business and for that reason I try to do as much business as I can without losing too much money. There are some good shops left that have found a way to stay competitive and retain the friendly atmosphere we older guys remember. They are worth seeking out.
firm. If it is and it's high, I move on.
Same deal with used guns. I try to buy armed with knowledge of the current market. I will try a little harder with a used gun to get a lower price just because of the knowledge I have of LGS's buying and trading practices with used guns.
One thing I will not put up with is a rude clerk or owner. I expect any business to appreciate me spending my money with them and I don't think expecting a pleasant exchange is too much. On the other hand a clerk or owner should not have to put up with rude customers. It works both ways. I stay away from shops that have so much business that they no longer value all their customers.
I don't want to see the local shops go out of business and for that reason I try to do as much business as I can without losing too much money. There are some good shops left that have found a way to stay competitive and retain the friendly atmosphere we older guys remember. They are worth seeking out.
I might have asked her politely "are you a swallower or a spitter?"
I don't get upset or angry if someone rejects my fair offer.I do get upset when someone is rude after I have conducted myself in a professional fashion.
snubbiefan
Member
Well sky....I was on some tables with my other two buddies and I also have a personal relationship with all the off-duty LEO's that work security at the shows. I did not want to light any more fuses under that lady. She was about to pop-a-cork when she came in the door. The last thing I wanted her to do was create a bigger ruckus, disturb my other table mates, or put the LEO's in a bad position. One of my buddies who was doing the paperwork on a sale asked me after she walked off.....what in the he!! was that all about. I just told him they must have issued passes from the Psychiatric Ward this weekend and she got one.
snubbiefan
Member
gaspipes....I agree....I want them to sell ALL their old NL junk to me!
mike from st pete
Member
I hate haggling. Buying a car is among the worst experiences in the world for me. You have to do it though.
I cannot see a customer walking up to the clerk in, well pick your favorite non-gun store, and asking to have a lower price at check out. Where I do expect to have a discussion on pricing is a Gun Show. And especially at the non-FFL tables.
At times I wish the price on the tag was a fair market value. If it is not I do not even ask, I just walk on by. What really torques my screws is the no price tag places. I always thought if I had to ask I would be unable to afford the dang thing. Those I pass on quicker than any others.
I cannot see a customer walking up to the clerk in, well pick your favorite non-gun store, and asking to have a lower price at check out. Where I do expect to have a discussion on pricing is a Gun Show. And especially at the non-FFL tables.
At times I wish the price on the tag was a fair market value. If it is not I do not even ask, I just walk on by. What really torques my screws is the no price tag places. I always thought if I had to ask I would be unable to afford the dang thing. Those I pass on quicker than any others.
Rafsob
US Veteran
You must remember that when you trade a gun in at a gun store, the dealer will sell it and must make some kind of profit. That is why he will give you a lower price for your gun.
Now if you were to sell it out right to a buyer and not a dealer, you can ask for and get a good profitable price. People tend to forget that part of the equation!
Yep ~ just business. You had a right to ask and they had a right to decline.
Not sure I would have knocked almost 15% off a $459.00 gun either but ...... to each their own.
Maybe it's possible that 686 was new to them; meaning they hadn't had it in stock long. A local pawn shop owner tells me from time to time that if a certain gun is still in the case in 30 - 60 - or 90 days, he will wiggle on the price then.
Not sure I would have knocked almost 15% off a $459.00 gun either but ...... to each their own.
Maybe it's possible that 686 was new to them; meaning they hadn't had it in stock long. A local pawn shop owner tells me from time to time that if a certain gun is still in the case in 30 - 60 - or 90 days, he will wiggle on the price then.
gaspipes....I agree....I want them to sell ALL their old NL junk to me!
Exactly! So as far as I'm concerned S&W new revolvers are the best they have ever made.
And I do think, lock aside they are pretty good. Who makes a better one today?
mkk41
US Veteran
Had a guy try to sell me what he claimed was the Army .45 his father supposedly carried in either Korea or Viet Nam. The reek of booze shoulda gave it away. He brought out an older brown US flap holster with a rusty Llama in it. No amount of book proof could tell him that this wasn't a GI issue .45 and worth a lot of money.
Dick Nissen
Member
Some people seem to be running a gun collection these days, instead of a gun business. Lots of crazy prices out there, especially at beef jerky shows...I mean gun shows.
I'm sure you'll find some other good use for the money burning a hole in your pocket.
Pretty funny! I would add pecans & "local" honey to the beef jerky description...........
There are dealers of everything like this. I also collect coins from time to time and have run into the same thing. Best just to smile at them and walk away. And "Tyrod" is right in that when it comes time for trade in, they usually have no problem offering a lowball price for your gun. The dealers who rub me the wrong way are the ones who act as if you are bothering them when you ask a question or want to see something from their case. It's best to find a gunshop where you can make friends witht the owner and become aquainted and get a relationship started based on mutual trust. "Just walk away smiling", it either makes them feel good or pisses them off. Either way you win...
Tyrod
Member
I'm not really sure if it's a sign of the times or the advent of the internet or whatever, but gun shops have changed. I've lived most of my adult life in central Florida. I've seen a change in attitude in the gun stores my area. I don't think there is anyone here that thinks or believes that a gun store will pay retail for a trade-in. We all know the basics of how retail industry works. The change I see is that at one time a gun store would offer a reasonable amount for a trade-in. Let's say half the price of a similar used gun. Suppose you have a gun that cost $1000 new. It's $700 to $800 used in excellent condition. So the gun store would offer let's say $350. A person inclined to want to get rid of the used gun may just take an offer like that. The seller is happy, he got rid of a gun he didn't want and aquired a different one in it's place, making up any difference in price. The gun store is happy, they have a gread deal of equity in a different gun and they've sold another gun.
Today, I see gun stores offering $100 to $150 for the same gun. So, I rekon the SOP now is to lowball the tradein value. What bothers me is that upon realizing I'm not gonna give my gun away, the gun store isn't willing to up their offer. I guess a few hundred dollars profit isn't enough for them. I'll bet that's more than most gun stores make on a new gun. And of course if your local gun store is trying to sell at MSRP then run don't walk away.
In these harder economic times some folks are willing to take a beating on a gun if they have to feed their kids or they have to make a rent/mortgage payment, or keep the lights on, etc. But not everyone is that desperate.
I have turned to this (and other) forum to sell some of the used guns I've aquired and found I had no purpose for or I didn't like. Some of you may have bought guns from me. I haven't had any complaints yet. I'm certainly pleased with the sales I've made. At the same time, I've purchased guns from forum members and I'm also pleased with the prices I've paid. One gun store (pawn shop) in the next town does some of my transfers. On the first transfer, which was a new gun, I felt like I had he obligation to let the store try and match the online price I was gonna pay. He charges $30 for the transfer of which $5 is the background check. He told me flat out that he'd rather take the $25 profit, than try to match prices. In fact, he was quite pleased to do business in this maner. He makes $25 and has to make 1 toll free phone call that lasts about 2 minutes and do some record keeping which also takes about 2 minutes. In turn, he has no new inventory to keep up with and tie up his money. The gun store closer to me will also do transfers, but charges more. He feels making something is better than making nothing. Besides, he caters to 1st time or economy minded buyers and had 90% of his inventory tied up in cheap foreign autoloaders. The revolvers he has are Judges & Governors and Taurus model 85 & variants. So, anything I would want, I would have to order through him. I'd rather do the ordering myself and pay him a fee for doing so.
So, where's all this heading? As I said in the beginning the gun shops in my area are changing. IMHO they better get with the times or risk their businesses. Because, at this point, all I need is a kitchen table FFL holder to do transfers. Surely, it's only a matter of time before a great many folks figure all this out.
Today, I see gun stores offering $100 to $150 for the same gun. So, I rekon the SOP now is to lowball the tradein value. What bothers me is that upon realizing I'm not gonna give my gun away, the gun store isn't willing to up their offer. I guess a few hundred dollars profit isn't enough for them. I'll bet that's more than most gun stores make on a new gun. And of course if your local gun store is trying to sell at MSRP then run don't walk away.
In these harder economic times some folks are willing to take a beating on a gun if they have to feed their kids or they have to make a rent/mortgage payment, or keep the lights on, etc. But not everyone is that desperate.
I have turned to this (and other) forum to sell some of the used guns I've aquired and found I had no purpose for or I didn't like. Some of you may have bought guns from me. I haven't had any complaints yet. I'm certainly pleased with the sales I've made. At the same time, I've purchased guns from forum members and I'm also pleased with the prices I've paid. One gun store (pawn shop) in the next town does some of my transfers. On the first transfer, which was a new gun, I felt like I had he obligation to let the store try and match the online price I was gonna pay. He charges $30 for the transfer of which $5 is the background check. He told me flat out that he'd rather take the $25 profit, than try to match prices. In fact, he was quite pleased to do business in this maner. He makes $25 and has to make 1 toll free phone call that lasts about 2 minutes and do some record keeping which also takes about 2 minutes. In turn, he has no new inventory to keep up with and tie up his money. The gun store closer to me will also do transfers, but charges more. He feels making something is better than making nothing. Besides, he caters to 1st time or economy minded buyers and had 90% of his inventory tied up in cheap foreign autoloaders. The revolvers he has are Judges & Governors and Taurus model 85 & variants. So, anything I would want, I would have to order through him. I'd rather do the ordering myself and pay him a fee for doing so.
So, where's all this heading? As I said in the beginning the gun shops in my area are changing. IMHO they better get with the times or risk their businesses. Because, at this point, all I need is a kitchen table FFL holder to do transfers. Surely, it's only a matter of time before a great many folks figure all this out.
Robinett_11B
US Veteran
You say that (last sentence) as if someone making a profit on a gun is some kind of terrible deed. If I came across a Registered Magnum for $200 at a garage sale, and was forced to sell it for whatever reason, I'd sure as hell be looking to make at least 10 times that. You make it sound like, just because someone may of spoken of a good deal they got, that you must also get that deal. The market dictates what a fair price is...on the seller's and buyer's end. Would I be price gouging if I sold that $200 RM for $800....I mean, that'd be 4x what I paid for it
I rarely sell guns for profit, but I have at one time...on a M27. I had also posted in a thread how much I'd got it for, which was $600. So I had guys PM'ing one after the other offering me $500. It ended up going to a nice guy here on the forum for $850. I believe that was a fair price for a nearly pristine 5" example in today's market. By your reasoning though, it seems like I'd be some kind of villain for not just selling it for the obviously-too-low price I paid for it. Ask any of the guys on our local gun forum out here, SeattleGuns, they'll tell you that I'm a good seller and always sell my guns fairly. Just saying, making a profit on a gun (in a private sale) shouldn't make you some kind of shady dealer.
Just my $0.02
I'm still learning though. I'm fairly young and have only been buying/selling/trading for about 3 years...though, I've got about 80 FTF deals under my belt here in W. WA. If I'm way off base here, then I'd appreciate any advice or constructive criticism. We all have to learn some way and I can't think of a better place to learn than right here. I'd imagine, 40 years from now, when I'm in my 60's; I'll have alll the experience I need. Then I'll be the knowledgeable "old guy" helping teach the younger generation
Last edited:
Tyrod
Member
Hey, it's your money and/or your mechandise. Do with it as you please.
The two axiums in business that I hate the most are:
"it's just business" and "don't do business with family"
The first quote implies that normally you're a nice guy but now that money is involved the "nice guy" has turned into Mr Hyde. At the end of the day, you're the one that has to live with yourself. Could you honestly take advantage of the little old lady that is selling her dear departed husband's 45cal Luger. Knowing you could give her thousands and in turn sell for possibly millions. If you consider youself a nice guy then be intellectually consistant and be a nice guy with your financial matters.
I enjoy doing business with my family. It allows me to pass on the good fortune I've experienced to people I love. The inverse of that is that, I've experienced a net gain in my financial endeavors and I'm so greedy that I'm not willing to give a discount to anyone.
I'm not saying you're not entitled to profit. Furthermore, I'm not saying you're not entitled to windfall profit. What I am saying is be honest and forthright so that these little things don't keep you awake at night or come to bother you much more later in life.
This all presumes you have a functioning conscience. If you don't, never mind.
Last edited:
In which case it's all the more important to not get upset, and simply say, "No thank you," and walk away.
mkk41
US Veteran
Yep , most local gun show have been looking more and more like flea and farmers markets.
And I've actually gotten some pretty good deals on old gun stuff , including reloading stuff , hard to find ammo and brass , at the local Sunday morning flea market!
You missed out
V
It was real. The guy was blaxk ops in Sangbang in '48. The mexicans were making copies of the 1911 and m92 back then to support the takeover of south Vietnam by communist leader Mao Jong Obama. Those commie used alpaca guns would fire both 45acp and 7.62x54 ball. You missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity.
V
It was real. The guy was blaxk ops in Sangbang in '48. The mexicans were making copies of the 1911 and m92 back then to support the takeover of south Vietnam by communist leader Mao Jong Obama. Those commie used alpaca guns would fire both 45acp and 7.62x54 ball. You missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity.
snubbiefan
Member
Those are the kind of deals I am glad I missed out on. Folks bring in broken guns for trade all the time and then there is the guy I know that has torn-up a perfectly good model 686 that he "self-drilled" the holes in for scope mounting. Too bad he got the hole he drilled in the front too close to the forcing cone and after some shooting.....it blew-away his mounting screw and eat a bigger hole up through the frame. He stuck the front sight back on and traded for a 45ACP. I pity the man that winds up with that screwed-up 686 that they think they stuck him on with that Taurus 1911 they traded him for it.
You say that (last sentence) as if someone making a profit on a gun is some kind of terrible deed. If I came across a Registered Magnum for $200 at a garage sale, and was forced to sell it for whatever reason, I'd sure as hell be looking to make at least 10 times that. You make it sound like, just because someone may of spoken of a good deal they got, that you must also get that deal. The market dictates what a fair price is...on the seller's and buyer's end. Would I be price gouging if I sold that $200 RM for $800....I mean, that'd be 4x what I paid for it
I rarely sell guns for profit, but I have at one time...on a M27. I had also posted in a thread how much I'd got it for, which was $600. So I had guys PM'ing one after the other offering me $500. It ended up going to a nice guy here on the forum for $850. I believe that was a fair price for a nearly pristine 5" example in today's market. By your reasoning though, it seems like I'd be some kind of villain for not just selling it for the obviously-too-low price I paid for it. Ask any of the guys on our local gun forum out here, SeattleGuns, they'll tell you that I'm a good seller and always sell my guns fairly. Just saying, making a profit on a gun (in a private sale) shouldn't make you some kind of shady dealer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree on this one. I seldom make any money on guns or very little. I do try to come out even though! I'm into guns for the fun of it. I buy, I shoot, I sell and buy some more. Unless I find one that I really like then I hang onto it.
BUT I did find a registered magnum in a pawn shop. I really didn't know what I was buying other than it was a old S&W 357 and knew it had to be worth more than the $329 I paid for it!! I posted what I found here and soon learned what I had bought!! I got offers instantly for this RM.
Although I didn't sell it right away. I did sell it several months down the road to the highest offer, which was over 10 times what I payed for it. Yes I had a RM and sold it. I am not a collector. I did so some shooting with it with 38's.
I don't feel like I was a crook. Everyone knew what I paid for it. I paid my property taxes for the year with some of the money and bought more S&W guns that I normally wouldn't have bought. Some from members here.
John
I find that I'm more tolerable of a slightly higher price if I enjoy the experience than I am in a "sanitary" big box gun store.
My favorite gun store is a very small one. If I want to order a gun, I go there. And a couple times they've had what I want in stock. I like the place and the people there so much, I'm willing to buy the gun from there that I could get for $20 cheaper at the big box store that you can't go and BS about guns, and hunting, and cars, and family, and whatever.
I'll pay that $20 every time to hang out with the people and thoroughly enjoy the time in the store.
And I find that the smaller store owner that I show loyalty to will occaisionally reward me, like with a 4 inch model 10 that isn't the prettiest on the outside, but runs like new for $100 out the door.
My favorite gun store is a very small one. If I want to order a gun, I go there. And a couple times they've had what I want in stock. I like the place and the people there so much, I'm willing to buy the gun from there that I could get for $20 cheaper at the big box store that you can't go and BS about guns, and hunting, and cars, and family, and whatever.
I'll pay that $20 every time to hang out with the people and thoroughly enjoy the time in the store.
And I find that the smaller store owner that I show loyalty to will occaisionally reward me, like with a 4 inch model 10 that isn't the prettiest on the outside, but runs like new for $100 out the door.
Similar threads
