Do you wear rx glasses and have astigmatism? Need your experience.

[bevans555]

Sorry, for the long post but would appreciate some help or explanation to my vision/scope issue.

I'm 33 and my vision just recently started to weaken, I only started needing corrective glasses in the last 2 years. My left eye vision is ok, but my right (dominant) eye vision is poor. I'm nearsighted, with astigmatism(just found out a few weeks ago). I dont need/wear my glasses daily, I can see fine for everyday purposes without them, I just cant make out facial features or read small street signs until I'm right up on them... maybe 5+/- yards away. Also I wear them for watching tv, again due to faces being fuzzy without them. The way my lenses in my glasses are setup is the left lens clears up the picture but the depth remains true, while the right lens clears the picture up but makes objects seem further away.

Ok, now for my optic issue. Y'all probably remember my recent thread. Short recap- I bought my first AR and Red dot, got the RDS home and found out I have astigmatism and the RDS was not useabe for me at all without rx glasses, and that was not acceptable to me.


I was able to swap the RDS through the manufacturer and chose a 1x Prism scope w/etched illuminated reticle. Wow, This thing is clear and works just like a RDS but is so much crisper and the glass is super clear. Also, I love the etched reticle, not having to rely on a battery.

However, now I have noticed that if I dont wear my rx glasses the prism scope corrects my vision for me. Its like looking through a hunting scope but 1x. Its absolutely perfect for me without rx glasses, even with both eyes open.... BUT when I put on my rx glasses, the right lens makes the target look further away, and that creates my left eye to try to fight for dominance, and if I close my left eye the the target is clear but it still looks further away(smaller) than it is.

I grabbed my 10/22 with 4x32 scope and tested it with and without my rx glasses and without glasses everything is clear and with glasses everything is clear and looks only very slightly further away(barely noticeable), I'm assuming the 4x magnification kinda offsets the depth issue.

Now, I would much rather have an optic that I can use without rx glasses, rather than one that requires me being dependent on them. So, I could just use my standard non rx range glasses for shooting and be fine. But, Im wanting to know if there is another type of optic that would work better, both with and without my glasses.... or is it just the right lens in my glasses is gonna cause this problem with any optic?

I do have the option of trading my 1x prism scope for a 1-6x strike eagle scope. Do you guys think that a variable power would work better? I do like the idea of 1x with the option for magnification for target shooting, and the 3 gun guys swear by variable power scopes (not that i do 3 gun).

I know red dots are not for me.. I like the 1x etched reticle prism scope a lot. The strike eagle also has the etched/illuminated reticle with 1x-6x... I'm thinking even if the prismm and variable will have the same issue, I might still trade just for the option of magnification.

FYI, in case it matters - while looking through optics I was scanning targets out my window around my neighborhood, the distances were probably 20-300 yards.

Sorry again for this long *** thread just need opinions from guys with similar vision problems and more experience.

Thanks

 

[Rastoff]

I'm 51 and wear trifocals. As is common with people, I'm developing presbyopia as I age. So, I have the opposite problem from you; I'm becoming more far sighted and need reading glasses.

I do have a tiny astigmatism. I can still use a red dot without my glasses, but the dot is not perfectly clear. Still, it's clear enough. Everything is better though if I use my glasses. This is annoying, but the state of my vision. I now wear glasses almost all the time and have just learned to deal with it.

I have a question about your vision:
Are you saying that without the glasses, the 1x prism scope makes everything clear just as though you're wearing your glasses?

 

[bevans555]

I have a question about your vision:
Are you saying that without the glasses, the 1x prism scope makes everything clear just as though you're wearing your glasses?

Thanks for the fast reply

Yes. Its weird, but without my rx glasses on, while looking through the 1x prism scope my vision is perfect. Everything is crisp and clear... just like when i am wearing my glasses. This is the same for me when looking through a hunting scope without glasses, like a 3-9x40 my vision is perfect.

 

[WR Moore]

I've been wearing corrective lenses for decades. Passing from single lenses through bifocals to trifocals. I've been using Aimpoints for 30+ years as well as scopes.

So, you don't want to believe this, but if you can't make out faces or road signs till you're 15 feet away, you CAN'T see perfectly for everyday purposes. You need to be wearing those specs, particularly if your poor eye is your master eye. BTW, things are gonna get worse as you get older. As a long time instructor, I've dealt with many folks in denial about their eyesight (including myself about the jump to trifocals). Your situation isn't unusual, but you need to accept that you NEED vision correction.

I expect, heck I know, your correction for astigmatism isn't correct if you don't have a sharp red dot. Now, this can be sloppy work by your opthamologist or the lens provider. I've had issues with both. Prescription lens grinds aren't truly custom, they progress by discrete steps. The eye doctor gets it as close as they can. Usually, they can get it right on the money, or at least usable. What I've taken to doing is dismounting one of my optics and taking it along when I visit the opthamologist. When I've got a clear dot, he's got the astigmatism correction right. You don't want to be using lowest bidder for your vision care needs-unless they're getting the job done, which it appears yours didn't.

Alternatively, you could learn to shoot other handed to use the "good eye".

 

[agksimon]

I'm 72 and in addition to presbyopia, I have astigmatism in both eyes. I also have trouble with red dots, though the better quality ones are not as bad as the cheaper ones. I have a Vortex Spitfire 3X prism scope mounted on my M&P Sport 2, optics ready version. It works very well for me, but it sounds like my dominant eye is in better shape than yours.

 

[rwsmith]

I can only add.....

I hope you have a good ophthalmologist. When your situation goes from 'needing glasses' to having special problems they are the best at evaluation your vision, correcting it and monitoring any further problems.

I don't think you have to be having that difference in each eye. I've had eye trouble with powerful correction and severe astigmatism since I was a kid and it's turned into complications with diabetes, cataracts, glaucoma. My doctor considers me something of a 'model patient' because he's corrected the cataracts to the point that I can drive w/o glasses about like you now. Also, the diabetes hasn't taken a toll after 35 years.

I did have a torn retina problem and he sent me to a retina specialist and between them the problem eased off.

PS: Though you couldn't call me a 'deadeye' shot, I can see the sights well enough on my guns not to feel like I'm impaired like I am trying to work on small objects with instructions that look like they were transferred from microfilm.

 

[bevans555]

Thanks guys... I know that its only going to get worse as I get older but right now I feel its honestly not too bad.. but I dont know. I mean im not in bi or tri focals, yet. I can still make out the make and model of cars from a distance, shapes, etc.. nothing really hinders my driving or daily activities... the main problems I have are making out peoples facial features ( I would be a horrible eye witness) until I'm almost conversation distance from them... and now that im starting to get back into recreational target shooting (took several years off) 50 yards looks like 100 yards and 100 yards looks like 300 yards.

My OS (Left) lens is -0.5
My OD (Right) lens is -1.5

I dont think thats real bad... but again I dont know a lot about vision problems.

I first noticed my eyes not being as sharp when I was 30, I couldnt make out faces and jerseys while watching football on a 56" from about 15' away. I went to walmart and got my first ever eye exam, right after that I went to a "real" eye doctor and was fitted for contacts. I could not get use to sticking my fingers in my eyes, and the contact felt like it was going to fall off or move every time I blinked, and getting thm out was a pain, so I gave up on it. At 31 I tried again and went to a different real eye DR and got glasses (my RX had not changed), I wore them for a while but the constant taking them off and on (I drive alot and have very sensitive eyes when it comes to light) gave me headaches so, I basically just used them at home. Then this year I decided to go get new RX glasses and also RX sunglasses. I dont have insurance now, so I went to Lenscrafters, and my RX still hasnt changed. I always wear my RX sunglasses anytime I'm driving or outside at all. But I usually dont wear my regular rx glasses inside because I basically stare at a computer screen or books all day for work and I can see fine close up... but I do wear them when watching tv at night.

Also, at all 3 eye exams ive had, not a single Dr ever told me I had astigmatism... which is probably why contacts didnt feel right for me.. The first Dr. did tell me that i had some depth perception problems and had never truly seen 3D. Ive since been told you need a special contact for astigmatism or they feel like they sit on your eye and move when you blink.. It wasnt until I purchased the red dot that I found out. And I tried an Aimpoint, MRO, and 2 Vortex RDS and they all looked like huge starbursts, but if I flip up the rear buis the dot shrunk and became crisp, also with my rx sunglasses the dot was corrected.

Anyway, said all that just to give you guys some background... and again I do really like my Vortex Spitfire AR 1x prism scope, its great as long as I shoot with standard safety glasses instead of my rx glasses, but I do think I want some magnification... I just need to decide whether to trade the spitfire for the Strike Eagle 1-6. Or find out what you guys with similar issues are using.

 

[vonn]

Sounds like you need to find a good ophthalmologist. I have just recently had eye surgery in both eyes for astigmatism,glaucoma in my left,and they did my cataracts and now I can shoot iron sights almost as well as when I was younger.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Yes. Its weird, but without my rx glasses on, while looking through the 1x prism scope my vision is perfect. Everything is crisp and clear... just like when i am wearing my glasses.

BUT when I put on my rx glasses, the right lens makes the target look further away, and that creates my left eye to try to fight for dominance, and if I close my left eye the the target is clear but it still looks further away(smaller) than it is.

Unlike a true 1x reflex red dot, a prism scope isn't a true 1X, it has magnification. This is why prism scopes aren't recommended for co-witnessing with iron sights. The amount of magnification sounds like it's enough to make your vision clearer in the one eye.
Then when you put your glasses on it complicates the correction.

As far as all the rest in your postings.... You asked for opinion. I'm 59, have an astigmatism and wear my corrective glasses when shooting open sight, reflex red dot sights and magnified optics. I don't use 1x prism sights. IMO, I think you're making things unnecessarily complicated for yourself trying to get away from wearing your corrective glasses when shooting.

 

[rwsmith]

You're right about that......

We ain't getting younger and as you develop vision problems they only get worse without some quality intervention. If not today, think of saving your eyes for when we get REALLY old.

 

[MichiganScott]

I have rather severe presbyopia and astigmatism. I wouldn't think about trying to shoot without my no-line bifocals. I have found out that without glasses I can focus binoculars or spotting scopes such that the object I'm looking at is clear. I have found that can use traditional rifle scopes if I focus the eyepiece properly, but I have to wear my glasses.

Dot sights work, but the brightness has to be turned down. Smaller diameter dots work best. I've learned to use the dot by centering it in the black on a target and keeping even amounts of black around the dot. This works even if the dot is less than round.

If I could not recognize faces except at conversation range or read license plates, I'd run, not walk, to a qualified ophthalmologist. I put my glasses on first thing in the morning and take them off at bedtime. Your eyes need to become accustomed to glasses. Taking them off and putting them back on during the day stresses your eyes and the glasses don't seem to work.

 

[rwsmith]

Up until the time.....

...If I could not recognize faces except at conversation range or read license plates, I'd run, not walk, to a qualified ophthalmologist. I put my glasses on first thing in the morning and take them off at bedtime. Your eyes need to become accustomed to glasses. Taking them off and putting them back on during the day stresses your eyes and the glasses don't seem to work.

Up until I got my cataract surgery, without my glasses I could only tell who was talking to my by their general outline, mannerisms and voice. This was only from a few feet away.
A friend of mine recognized some people at a 1/4 of a mile away and I could hardly make them out as people with my glasses on.

 

[Neumann]

With astigmatism, you will see the same effect focusing on a reticule as for an RDS, except it is less obvious. Basically, you see double, and may still find precision shooting difficult without corrective lenses.

An RDS is focused between 80 yards and infinity, so there will be no parallax at that distance or beyond. Parallax is where the POA changes when you move your eye point from side to side. A stronger diopter lens will make the subject appear closer, but this will have no affect on the accuracy. You can shoot with one or both eyes open (both gives you better acquisition and situation awareness). You can even shoot accurately with the lens caps on the RDS closed with your weak eye open.

In a regular scope, you should have separate focusing for the reticule (i.e., the eyepiece) and the target, especially if you have vision problems. This is sometimes called "side focusing" because the knob is on the center turret.

Another option is first plane v second plane focusing. In first plane, the reticule is magnified along with the zoom level. In second plane, the reticule is constant, but may be hard to use with distant targets because thicker lines are needed. Second plane reticules are needed if you use mil markings to compensate for wind or range.

 

[bevans555]

The amount of magnification sounds like it's enough to make your vision clearer in the one eye.
Then when you put your glasses on it complicates the correction.

IMO, I think you're making things unnecessarily complicated for yourself trying to get away from wearing your corrective glasses when shooting.

Thank you for replying, but im confused by this statement. I agree with the first part 100%. Im not trying to get away from wearing them. I wear RX glasses at all times when driving and outside and when watching tv... I just dont wear them at the office because, I'm either sitting at my desk staring at a computer screen or reading.. both of those activities do not require glasses. I've ony been shooting twice since Ive purchased this AR and wore RX glasses both times.

I'm not sure what youre recommending I do.. If my 1x prism scope and 4x32 scope correct my vision problem without wearing glasses.... but wearing glasses while looking through those optics causes vision problems... then it seems like I should not wear my rx glasses when using those particular optics.

Please let me know if i missed something, but it seems like wearing the glasses while using those particular optics are actually making things unnecessarily complicated.

 

[bevans555]

With astigmatism, you will see the same effect focusing on a reticule as for an RDS, except it is less obvious. Basically, you see double, and may still find precision shooting difficult without corrective lenses.

An RDS is focused between 80 yards and infinity, so there will be no parallax at that distance or beyond. Parallax is where the POA changes when you move your eye point from side to side. A stronger diopter lens will make the subject appear closer, but this will have no affect on the accuracy. You can shoot with one or both eyes open (both gives you better acquisition and situation awareness). You can even shoot accurately with the lens caps on the RDS closed with your weak eye open.

In a regular scope, you should have separate focusing for the reticule (i.e., the eyepiece) and the target, especially if you have vision problems. This is sometimes called "side focusing" because the knob is on the center turret.

Another option is first plane v second plane focusing. In first plane, the reticule is magnified along with the zoom level. In second plane, the reticule is constant, but may be hard to use with distant targets because thicker lines are needed. Second plane reticules are needed if you use mil markings to compensate for wind or range.

The More You Know: Living With Astigmatism When Using Red Dot, Holographic and Prismatic Optics - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

Read specifically "red dot sight" and "prismatic optics".

 

[SgtStone]

I'm posting to correct some statements that, while well meaning, may not apply to you or others:

1) I have been told by vision specialists that some eye problems improve with age. I started wearing corrective lenses in my thirties, progressed to tri-focals in my forties; but in my fifties & sixties the correction is much less severe.

2) Vision and general health improve with a healthy diet. Eat lots of colorful fresh fruits & veg including lots of green leafy vegetables such as spinach & kale. The bright colors tend to indicate the presence of helpful compounds such as carotene in carrots, oxalic acid in spinach, etc.

Vitamins formulated for your age/gender won't hurt, either.

3) Cut back on alcohol & quit tobacco. My vision really improved after I quit smoking. Just offering advice, not preaching. At 65 my vision has slowly improved and cataracts are not developing despite long exposure to sunlight.

4) If you wear corrective lenses for regular vision, suggest you adapt your shooting & optics to the lenses for consistency. I keep my glasses next to a flashlight next to my home defense pistol. When alarmed, I acquire all three items for the safest response.

I haven't tried electronic optics, so cannot comment on them, but I augmented my M&P 15-22 with a quality rimfire 'scope, Nikon Prostaff II 40mm. With the Nikon I regularly hit 1 & 2" gongs at 50m & 3-4" gongs over 100m.

For those with Veteran's benefits, look into the Vision program. My latest lenses from the VA are progressives -- lineless trifocals that "progress" naturally from close to distant vision -- and transitions that automatically darken depending on ambient light including ultra-violet (UV) protection. I chose flexible titanium frames that, while large, fit under Lexan shooting glasses.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I wear RX glasses at all times when driving and outside and when watching tv... I just dont wear them at the office because, I'm either sitting at my desk staring at a computer screen or reading.. both of those activities do not require glasses. I've ony been shooting twice since Ive purchased this AR and wore RX glasses both times.

I'm not sure what youre recommending I do.. If my 1x prism scope and 4x32 scope correct my vision problem without wearing glasses.... but wearing glasses while looking through those optics causes vision problems... then it seems like I should not wear my rx glasses when using those particular optics.

Please let me know if i missed something, but it seems like wearing the glasses while using those particular optics are actually making things unnecessarily complicated.

I can't tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I would do...

Like you, I don't see well at distance without my corrective glasses. So I'm not taking them off just because I have a gun in my hands. That's not even a consideration.

Like I said, I don't use a prism sight. I use a true 1x reflex red dot. I don't know about your glasses, but mine are the proper prescription for me and allow me to see the red dot relatively crisp though not perfect (always focus down range, not on the dot). If the 2MOA reflex red dot that you used to have really looked messed up with your glasses, I'd have gone down to the gun store and asked to look at 3, 4 and 5MOA dots. If they all look horrible, my next visit would be to the eye doctor. Something ain't right. And I'd bring my red dot too. That's what I would do. And it's the only way that I would shoot with both eyes open using a 1x red dot and my glasses.

As far as standard magnified rifle scopes, I'd make sure I had one with an eyepiece focus (focus the reticle) and parallax adjustment, often refereed to as a 'side focus' or 'adjustable objective' for getting the target in focus.

I'd start by first getting my reticle in focus like this.

Weraring corrective glasses...

Turn the eyepiece focus ring out all the way.

Not looking through the scope, look off into the distance and relax the eyes. Then look through the scope properly.

The reticle will look out of focus.

Turn the eyepiece ring back in until reticle starts to look decent, then adjust it slowly until the reticle is as sharp as possible.

------

Once the reticle is in focus, use the side focus or adjustable objective to get the target in focus at whatever distance you are shooting at. If at that point you are struggling with depth perception or other problems with both eyes open then I'd just use the scope with one eye closed.

 

[bevans555]

Like you, I don't see well at distance without my corrective glasses. So I'm not taking them off just because I have a gun in my hands. That's not even a consideration.

And it's the only way that I would shoot with both eyes open using a 1x red dot and my glasses.


In my last thread I stated that I could have exchanged my Sparc AR red dot for a Strike Eagle 1-6 scope, but decided to go with the Spitfire AR and you said "With the Strike Eagle the front sight would have disappeared after 2x magnification. And with the Strike Eagle you would be able to use the focus to see everything sharp downfield without wearing your glasses." Now, I have an optic that I dont have to wear my glasses with and youre saying it's "unnecessarily complicated."

As far as standard magnified rifle scopes, I'd make sure I had one with an eyepiece focus (focus the reticle) and parallax adjustment, often refereed to as a 'side focus' or 'adjustable objective' for getting the target in focus.

I'd start by first getting my reticle in focus like this.

Weraring corrective glasses...

Turn the eyepiece focus ring out all the way.

Not looking through the scope, look off into the distance and relax the eyes. Then look through the scope properly.

The reticle will look out of focus.

Turn the eyepiece ring back in until reticle starts to look decent, then adjust it slowly until the reticle is as sharp as possible.

------
It appears that prism sights are not your thing, and thats fine. Just like red dots are not mine. However, my sight while not a true 1x (rarely any red dots are, even the MRO is actually 1.05x), acts very similar to RDS and for me delivers the illuminated reticle in a different way thats easier on astigmatism. Its paralax free, is close to 1x, delivers a clearer picture for me. Also the spitfire does have a reticle focus which I dialed in first, to assure the crispest reticle.


.

My original question from the OP was "Im wanting to know if there is another type of optic that would work better, both with and without my glasses.... or is it just the right lens in my glasses is gonna cause this problem with any optic?" I'm unsure of how it got so off topic but feel free to close the thread.... I think i'm going to spend some time on both the 1x and 4x32 for a while and then make a choice about possibly getting the strike eagle.... and Thank you for taking the time to write what you would do.

 

[rct269]

I've been wearing corrective lenses for decades. Passing from single lenses through bifocals to trifocals. I've been using Aimpoints for 30+ years as well as scopes.

So, you don't want to believe this, but if you can't make out faces or road signs till you're 15 feet away, you CAN'T see perfectly for everyday purposes. You need to be wearing those specs, particularly if your poor eye is your master eye. BTW, things are gonna get worse as you get older. As a long time instructor, I've dealt with many folks in denial about their eyesight (including myself about the jump to trifocals). Your situation isn't unusual, but you need to accept that you NEED vision correction.

I expect, heck I know, your correction for astigmatism isn't correct if you don't have a sharp red dot. Now, this can be sloppy work by your opthamologist or the lens provider. I've had issues with both. Prescription lens grinds aren't truly custom, they progress by discrete steps. The eye doctor gets it as close as they can. Usually, they can get it right on the money, or at least usable. What I've taken to doing is dismounting one of my optics and taking it along when I visit the opthamologist. When I've got a clear dot, he's got the astigmatism correction right. You don't want to be using lowest bidder for your vision care needs-unless they're getting the job done, which it appears yours didn't.

Alternatively, you could learn to shoot other handed to use the "good eye".

Having not read beyond this, let me offer an AMEN!!

My first glasses with astigmatism correction were---"unsatisfactory" is the mixed company term I used. I walked out of the eye doc office, noticed I could not see the lines between the bricks on a building across the street; and turned right around and went back in. Their response of "Oh!" was delivered with a tone and facial expression I took to mean they knew EXACTLY what was wrong. That interpretation was proven to be correct when the new glasses were finished---they were perfect----maybe even a little bit better.

The moral of this story is NEVER accept ANYTHING that doesn't suit you/meet your expectations. Every once in a while you'll learn you got the best there is. Most of the time you'll learn they can do better---sure enough!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Rastoff]

Does the ocular lens on your prism scope have an adjustment?