Don't kill me - XDM question...

[BillK01]

I posted this over at XD Talk but would like some input from you fine folks...

So I got to the range today with my newly purchased XDM .45 5.25" kit.

It shot better than I'm capable of shooting - but I had a couple issues I'd like some input on.

I thoroughly cleaned it the day I bought it and it's been sitting in my safe since then (about a week). I bought a bulk 250 pack of Remington UMC .45 230gr FMJ/ball ammo for it - and that's what I shot out of it today.

Anyway - I only shot 100 rounds out of it and during that time I had 5-6 Light Primer Strikes - no FTE's at all. The rounds that did not go off I cleared from from the chamber and inspected. There were no indentations on the primer even though the striker definitely "clicked" when I pulled the trigger each time - but there did appear a slight mark where the striker hit the primer but without enough force to deform it. After shooting the remainder of each mag each time it happened in - I put the failed rounds in the mag and shot it each time w/o incident (as I recall it only happened more than one time in each mag once and that time it happened 2x in one mag). I also had one instance where the slide didn't fully return fully and was about 1/8" shy of completing the cycle.

I'm new to XDM's and grip safeties (have Glocks and M & P's mostly) so I'm curious if these issues could simply be from limp wristing the gun - or if it's simply because the gun is still new and needs to be broken in more. My concern is if there's something bigger going on than that though.

I plan to clean the gun this evening and try to get out to the range again asap and shoot the remaining 150 rounds out of it to see if it occurs again - but in the meantime I'd love any ideas, suggestions or whatever about what may - or may not - be going on with it.

Other than those couple of issues I LOVE the gun - it's dead accurate and a joy to shoot. Really liking the XDM a lot and I hope it's just a newness or "me" issue that will work itself out with use.

Many thanks for any replies!

Bill

 

[ken158]

You mentioned that you cleaned the gun before firing - by any chance did you get any lube or oil on or near the firing pin? XD guns do not like that... and will exhibit the malfunction you described.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Yep, that would be the first thing I would check. Excess lube in the firing pin channel. Get on Youtube and watch the video instructions on removing the firing pin, clean out the channel, wipe off the pin and check it for burrs. Reassemble dry.

 

[worm5932]

im going to guess the firing pin area needs a good gleaning, something it causing it to drag.

 

[BillK01]

Thanks guys. I will try some Federal maybe. A guy over at the XD forums said he's had a lot of failures to fire lately with UMC but I can't imagine with no actual striker indents on the primers that it's an ammo issue even though UMC is kind of junky ammo.

I did tear it apart this evening and took the striker assembly apart. The striker was kind of gooey with some sort of light grease but not really all that bad. I wiped it down along with the channel where it rides (which was messy) and cleaned off the rest of the assembly then put it back together and cleaned the whole gun.

If the rain holds off I'm going to try and run over to the range in the morning and shoot another 100 or so rounds through it to see what happens.

I hope that's all it was because otherwise I really like the gun a lot.

 

[scooter123]

IMO your problem is the ammo. I am not at all impressed with the quality of manufacture for Remington UMC. On two occasions I've had near squibs that were so weak the bullet barely made it out of the barrel. On the first occasion the bullet did make it to the backstop but it went through the target sideways about 7 inches below the grouping. On the second occasion I could actually see the bullet spinning on the floor of the range 30 feet downrange. BTW, it was two separate range sessions out of the same 250 pak. The ONLY reason why I would purchase any of these bulk paks today is because I've found that Remington brass is just wonderful for reloading.

Now, on to what may be causing your problem. That is a primer that wasn't fully inserted into the primer pocket. Anytime you fail to seat a primer fully into the primer pocket you have a distinct risk of a misfire. A sure sign of this particular defect is that the round will fire 100% of the time on the second strike. What happens is the first strike seats the primer fully and then the second strike sets it off.

BTW, I've had an XDM 4.5 since 2008 and one thing I can assure you of is that the XDM series does NOT have a "weak" firing pin strike. In fact if you practice with Azoom Snap Caps you'll find the XDM deforms the aluminum at the headspace edge faster than almost any other semi.

What you need to be aware of is the sequence of events when a round fires. Step one is the initial strike, which drives the primer cup into the anvil creating the pressure spike that ignites the priming compound. Second event is the primer is "launched" out of the primer pocket a bit by the pressure generated by the burning compound. When this happens the primer cup will back away from the anvil slightly AND strike the still extended firing pin. Then the cases moves back as the bullet enters the barrel and re-seats the primer in the pocket. The result of all this is that a NORMAL firing pin strike on a misfire actually produces a dimple that looks rather light when compared to a primer in a case that fired normally.

Sum it all up and I think your problem was due to poorly seated primers. BTW, I hope you are saving those cases, because even if Remington is a bit lacking on quality for assembled ammunition their cases are the "bees knees" for reloading.

 

[BillK01]

IMO your problem is the ammo. I am not at all impressed with the quality of manufacture for Remington UMC. On two occasions I've had near squibs that were so weak the bullet barely made it out of the barrel. On the first occasion the bullet did make it to the backstop but it went through the target sideways about 7 inches below the grouping. On the second occasion I could actually see the bullet spinning on the floor of the range 30 feet downrange. BTW, it was two separate range sessions out of the same 250 pak. The ONLY reason why I would purchase any of these bulk paks today is because I've found that Remington brass is just wonderful for reloading.

Now, on to what may be causing your problem. That is a primer that wasn't fully inserted into the primer pocket. Anytime you fail to seat a primer fully into the primer pocket you have a distinct risk of a misfire. A sure sign of this particular defect is that the round will fire 100% of the time on the second strike. What happens is the first strike seats the primer fully and then the second strike sets it off.

BTW, I've had an XDM 4.5 since 2008 and one thing I can assure you of is that the XDM series does NOT have a "weak" firing pin strike. In fact if you practice with Azoom Snap Caps you'll find the XDM deforms the aluminum at the headspace edge faster than almost any other semi.

What you need to be aware of is the sequence of events when a round fires. Step one is the initial strike, which drives the primer cup into the anvil creating the pressure spike that ignites the priming compound. Second event is the primer is "launched" out of the primer pocket a bit by the pressure generated by the burning compound. When this happens the primer cup will back away from the anvil slightly AND strike the still extended firing pin. Then the cases moves back as the bullet enters the barrel and re-seats the primer in the pocket. The result of all this is that a NORMAL firing pin strike on a misfire actually produces a dimple that looks rather light when compared to a primer in a case that fired normally.

Sum it all up and I think your problem was due to poorly seated primers. BTW, I hope you are saving those cases, because even if Remington is a bit lacking on quality for assembled ammunition their cases are the "bees knees" for reloading.

Thank you for the excellent description!

Is there any way to visually confirm if the primer is seated properly prior to loading it in the mag? They all looked the same to my old eyes but truth be told I was using an Uplula to load my mags so was doing it pretty quickly.

Also, would it still be normal for there to be no obvious visual clues of a strike if the primer wasn't properly seated after not firing and then work on the second try and fire normally?

And you betcha I'm saving all my brass (plus whatever other serviceable brass I find laying around in a separate bucket for later inspection). Got a Dillon progressive that's just itching to do some reloading.

 

[B3500]

The described gooey substance found in the striker channel (still gooey at room temp?) seems like a possible culprit to me for the light strikes. Seeing the time of year, it could certainly slow the striker down and perhaps impair it more so if the temps are low enough where it got even stickier.

Go ahead and try it again with the channel cleaned along with taking a couple of brands of ammo the next time.

As an fyi, I include cleaning the striker and the striker channel on my first cleaning prior to going to the range. I do not put any lube in the striker channel after cleaning it up. This includes my XDM 3.8" .45 compact and knock on wood, it has exhibited no issues at all. Unless I am firing them a lot, between 6 months and a year interval I clean it again.

The grip safety should not be any issue at all, unless you don't get the safety full engaged, then it would not allow you to fire the gun at all.

Limp wristing usually manifests itself by not ejecting and/or feeding a new round properly as the hold is absorbing some of the forces it uses for this function. If it does that again with multiple ammo brands and you have a friend along who is a established shooter, let them try it to see if they have the same issue with that or not.

 

[BillK01]

It was gooey at room temp but then again it was also unusually warm on Saturday here when I first shot it - like 52F.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Liquid doesn't compress. Ergo having some on the striker causes the energy to be absorbed and the travel to be shortened. Dry your firing pins before reassembly.

 

[jeffhughes]

Thanks guys. I will try some Federal maybe. A guy over at the XD forums said he's had a lot of failures to fire lately with UMC but I can't imagine with no actual striker indents on the primers that it's an ammo issue even though UMC is kind of junky ammo.

I did tear it apart this evening and took the striker assembly apart. The striker was kind of gooey with some sort of light grease but not really all that bad. I wiped it down along with the channel where it rides (which was messy) and cleaned off the rest of the assembly then put it back together and cleaned the whole gun.

If the rain holds off I'm going to try and run over to the range in the morning and shoot another 100 or so rounds through it to see what happens.

I hope that's all it was because otherwise I really like the gun a lot.

If there is no indent on the primer it's not the ammo. Federal primers are the the softest, Tula and Wolf are the hardest.

If you are getting an indent and a ftf on the first try, but then you get a fire on the second try with the same round it's high primers. That's unusual but not totally unheard of with major brand ammo.

I agree with cleaning the striker and striker channel. That is most likely the culprit.

XDM's are fine guns, you'll get it figured out.

 

[Hapworth]

Might be the ammo and since you've stripped and cleaned the XDM, test it again with a different brand -- but I wouldn't be surprised if a trip back to Springfield for inspection and adjustment is in order. I have touchy relationships with any new firearms that have issues out of the box and generally believe under such circumstances in letting the Mother Ship handle it warranty-style.

I've shot a good many recent batches of Remington UMC in .45 without issue.

Hopefully when you're getting these light strikes you're implementing potential hang-fire measures?

 

[BillK01]

Might be the ammo and since you've stripped and cleaned the XDM, test it again with a different brand -- but I wouldn't be surprised if a trip back to Springfield for inspection and adjustment is in order. I have touchy relationships with any new firearms that have issues out of the box and generally believe under such circumstances in letting the Mother Ship handle it warranty-style.

I've shot a good many recent batches of Remington UMC in .45 without issue.

Hopefully when you're getting these light strikes you're implementing potential hang-fire measures?

Yes sir - I'm waiting (probably too long) to make sure it's not a hang fire.

I did call Springfield this morning and they are sending me a new Guide Spring. According some talk over on the XD Forums there were a few reports of the 5.25" XDm's shipping with the incorrect length spring.

We'll see - I'm going to get definitely try a different brand of ammo on my next trip just to rule that out possibly.

 

[harmavoidance0]

I had the same issue with my XDM 4.5inch. Goop in the striker channel. quick clean and no problems since.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
If the xd is anything like a glock , the striker rides on some kind
of plastic guides in the channel.
There should be NO oil, grease or lube of any kind.
They just collect dirt and junk, also the oil acts as a buffer on the striker
causing ftf or light hits...