Doubts and questions about an Hand Ejector cal 32

[ENNE-FRAME]

Dear forum friends, I urgently need your help because I found this apparently new 32 Hand Ejector, I have to send money immediately to stop it but I don't know the gun at all. It looks beautiful but it doesn't have the S&W mark stamped on the side, and this thing made me suspicious. Enlarging the photo the sideplate seems brushed. SN 272141
On the 4th edition of the Standard Catalog says the the small S&W trademark are present on the LH side or rare in th RH sideplate

He's an old man who's selling it and I can't ask him for more photos because he says he can't take more but has to ask his nephew if he can go to his house after work to take more photos.

 

[glowe]

Great gun!! It is a 32 Hand Ejector, 3rd Model, or Model 1903 which is an I frame revolver and smaller than the 38 Military & Police. It was made between 1917 and 1920. S&Ws were made without stamped logos during the WWI timeframe. The gun chambers 32 Long cartridge.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

Great gun!! It is a 32 Hand Ejector, 3rd Model, or Model 1903 which is an I frame revolver and smaller than the 38 Military & Police. It was made between 1917 and 1920. S&Ws were made without stamped logos during the WWI timeframe. The gun chambers 32 Long cartridge.

So you assure me that the revolver is correct without any S&W trademark stamped on it...
If so i'll be very happy to buy it

 

[glowe]

No doubt in my mind that it is a S&W. You can see the SMITH & WESSON on the left side of the barrel and 32 LONG CTG on the right side. Serial number is correct for S&W.

 

[hibbs]

check the knurled end of the ejector rod. If it is shiney metal, your golden! If blue, re blued.

Richard

 

[viceunit]

hand ejector

Here is a later one, belonged to my maternal grandfather. This one, shipped in 1928, has the small trademark near the thumb piece. A little hard to see in this photo.

Photos added for clarity.

 

[daveboy]

Mine has a definite S&W logo on the left side. However, mine was made circa 1910 and this is something that I've read changed thru the years (no expert). I will say that the finish in the photos looks exceptional for a gun of that vintage. It is hard to tell, but it looks like the word "Wesson" on the barrel is much more shallow than "Smith", making me believe it MIGHT have been polished and refinished. It may just be the lighting. There is hardly any cylinder line, so it hasn't been used much since the finish was applied, whether original or refinish. It's a good-looking gun, and most definitely is a S&W.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

As I said I can't have more photos, I have to make do with what I have to understand if the gun is in original condition or if it has been reblued. Ultimately I read your answers I don't understand if the lack of trademark is correct for that serial number. Only glowe claims that during the war period no marks were placed on Smith & Wesson guns, but then he says, there is no doubt that it is a S&W. of course it is a S&W, I never doubted it, but that was not what I wanted to know. In the first photo, the one with the box, you can clearly see that the gun is in excellent condition, it would seem original, it has all the lines, planes and edges perfect, even on the cylinder. Since I can't have more photos I can't see the knurled end of the ejector rod well but by enlarging the photo a lot it would seem with the face that engages the locking not reblued and the rolled writing on the barrel seems perfect to me. Instead the side plate would seem brushed but not with the altered plane. To erase the trademark they would have had to work hard as it was deeply engraved. In any case, the highlighted position is not the one in which the trademarks must be.
If it was factory reblued should it have stamps under the grips certifying this?
In the photo posted on the next thread, which I borrowed, you can clearly see the sideplate perfectly following the plane of the frame and the perfect surface.

in the third photo where there is the white tick you can see a circular shadow that could make you think of the presence of the S&W stamp, where there is the yellow tick you can see some signs of workmanship and a rust stain, in the green tick you can see the sideplate that does not follow the frame

also in the photos of the previous thread the barrel has rolled the caliber engraving on the left side in the revolver in question is on the right side

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

check the knurled end of the ejector rod. If it is shiney metal, your golden! If blue, re blued.

Richard

I managed to get some more pics, I say, certainly it has been reblued. What do you understand?

 

[raljr1]

I was prepared to say it had been reblued from the first look. Seeing the last photo, I am convinced it is not the original finish. The finish looks a bit blacker that factory to me and I looked closely at the ejector rod knob and it is blued. Not a bad little gun if the price is right. The box may be worth as much as the gun, I don't know.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

I was prepared to say it had been reblued from the first look. Seeing the last photo, I am convinced it is not the original finish. The finish looks a bit blacker that factory to me and I looked closely at the ejector rod knob and it is blued. Not a bad little gun if the price is right. The box may be worth as much as the gun, I don't know.

Thank you, I am a fundamentalist collector, I do not buy anything if it is not 100% original and in good or excellent condition. I came to this determination because otherwise I would always be dissatisfied with my things.

 

[moosedog]

Good eye and its shows just how easy it is to be swayed by depth of lighting on photos.

 

[raljr1]

Thank you, I am a fundamentalist collector, I do not buy anything if it is not 100% original and in good or excellent condition. I came to this determination because otherwise I would always be dissatisfied with my things.

I am less discriminating, but a simple little 32 that has been refinished would not be a buy for me either. Now if it was a 32 target, I have a few and all are refinished....I admire those of you who demand perfection.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

I am less discriminating, but a simple little 32 that has been refinished would not be a buy for me either. Now if it was a 32 target, I have a few and all are refinished....I admire those of you who demand perfection.

unfortunately I am obsessed with objects, with an almost maniacal relationship, I am satisfied only if they are perfect and I say that I have closed the case, and I turn my attention elsewhere. If instead it is not perfect I continue to not be satisfied and want to replace it with a perfect one. So if the item is under 97/98 % i don't consider the purchase

 

[cmansguns]

lack of S&W logo

This thread started with a major question about the LACK OF the small S&W logo on the left side under the cylinder latch. Mine also has it. However I did just check the latest edition of SCSW, the 5th edition, page 177, and I quote "Some early examples were void of the S&W trademark on the frame.

From the description in SCSW 5th AND the OP's serial number of 272141, the gun in question is undoubtably a .32 Hand Ejector Third Model, manufactured from 1919 to 1942 and with serial numbers from 263001 to 536684. The OP's gun is clearly a "early" serial number (272141)....so.....all correct......except appears to have been re-finished.

Question for all: When a "all correct" gun has been "factory" refinished and can be proven with markings or paper documentation, would the value be diminished as bad as if done aftermarket?

My 32 Hand Ejector Third Model is the same as the one posted by the OP, just a much later serial number (514771) and mine was shipped in December of 1939 according to Roy Jinks. My box is the original box and lightly pencil matching serial number and contains documents with patent date December 28, 1920. My box is 1 piece hinged, maroon in color. The S&W logo on left side of frame is original and correct, but does appear lightly struck. Mine also has the "made in USA" on right side of frame, correct for the later serial number range.

 

[cmansguns]

WHOA.... Hold the presses Marcello...may NOT be refinished!

I did some more thinking (I know dangerous at my age) and then I got my 32 Hand Ejector out and started comparing with Marcellos' photos sent to him by the Seller.

1st comparison: the factory bluing on his vs mine. Mine is well worn but in less worn areas the blue is definitely "blacker" than bluer, and appears real nice and rich under some light.

2nd comparison (and the real kicker to me), I enlarged one of his pics, the one with the white and green tick marks, the same areas on mine look the same or very similar BUT in enlarging his pic please notice the very "tip" of his ejector rod knob. It sure appears "in the white" to me!

I shot some quick cell phone pics of mine trying for the same basic angle and they also appear the same, so with my cylinder open sure you can see the in the white tip, but what about the one Marcello is looking at?

If not too late maybe you can ask the Seller to just open the cylinder and see what the LERK tip looks like.

That was the only thing making me believe it was refinished and now I'm thinking maybe you have found an all correct gun with the box.

 

[glowe]

I stand by my comments, this is an original blued S&W. I see nothing in the photos that lead me to believe it is redone. The stamp on the barrel flat is not a refinish mark, but rather an Italian proof mark. I think you are overanalyzing this gun's condition. It is a great 32 HE and does not have a LERK!!!!!!!! The lack of a logo is found on every S&W made between 1917 and 1920, so this one is legit. No way anyone could take off that much metal on the sideplate to eliminate the logo that would not be very obvious.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

I stand by my comments, this is an original blued S&W. I see nothing in the photos that lead me to believe it is redone. The stamp on the barrel flat is not a refinish mark, but rather an Italian proof mark. I think you are overanalyzing this gun's condition. It is a great 32 HE and does not have a LERK!!!!!!!! The lack of a logo is found on every S&W made between 1917 and 1920, so this one is legit. No way anyone could take off that much metal on the sideplate to eliminate the logo that would not be very obvious.

hi glowe
here in Italy the market is different than in the United States, a revolver like this one that I posted is only sellable to high-level collectors, no one would buy it to go shooting or to have an handgun, here they buy either the 686 or the 617 nothing else. The collector if it is not original does not buy it, and in any case paying 900 euros for a revolver and then finding out that it has been reblued is not pleasant, because then you will not sell it to anyone else. I asked for help because I cannot see the revolver in person and the seller is not able to send me a lot of photos to evaluate the condition of the revolver, so I asked for help if by chance any of you noticed negative or positive things. The sideplate is in order but I didn't understand it from the first photos, too many marks and reflections, the left side seems perfect to me but the ejection rod recess and the knurled head seem completely black, instead the conical face should be in non-blued metal, even the locking pawl should not be blued

 

[cmansguns]

LERK, knurled, 2 piece, 1 piece ????

My mistake. I said LERK (Large Ejector Rod Knob) and my 32 Hand Ejector has what I believe is known as a "knurled" ejector rod, but it seems to be a separate knob, not all one piece. I have not tried to remove so I don't know if left or right hand threads.

What is the proper terminology?

 

[Muley Gil]

My mistake. I said LERK (Large Ejector Rod Knob) and my 32 Hand Ejector has what I believe is known as a "knurled" ejector rod, but it seems to be a separate knob, not all one piece. I have not tried to remove so I don't know if left or right hand threads.

What is the proper terminology?

I prefer Mushroom Head ejector rod, Barrel Shaped ejector rod and Straight Knurled ejector rod.