Dr. Walter J. Palmer

[Aticus]

In all the hoopla in the reporting of this I did see one short piece of video that showed the lion interacting with his pride. There was a quick movement of his head to the left that very clearly showed a collar. I don't know when that video was shot but if the lion was collared and the hunter didn't know or see before or after the killing shot then that is the dumbest or most blind hunter I've ever heard of. I think the guy knew and did it anyway.

For those of you who think hunting exotic animals for their trophy value I ask: have any of you looked into the state of exotic animals 20 or 30 years ago. Do to encroachment of man, unrestricted hunting, and mostly poachers these most of these animals faced extinction. Now because of controlled hunting they are making great strides on the comeback trail. There is an on going fight against poachers all over Africa. Hunters are not bad people.

In this country hunters and shooters provide large sums of money toward the conservation of our wild life through an 11% sales tax imposed by the Pitman-Robertson Act (spelling?) which hunters supported.

Remember also that PETA was caught a few years ago KILLING dogs because they didn't have a place to keep them. Now tell me about you moronic hunters. Now tell me that all hunters should be shot on sight.

Rant over.

Mods as usual if this not appropriate please delete.

 

[30-30remchester]

Trophy hunting gets a bad wrap from un-informed people. Trophy hunting is one of the best tools to increase the size of any animal herd. No body I know would spend $50,000 to shoot a small anything. Cecil was old with only a year to live on average, had killed to gain his place in the pride and had been chased out of the pride by younger males, let to die slowly as he aged, as males seldom hunt, and his speed and skills decline. To increase the number of lions, hunting males is required as a male will kill any cub that is not his. Ain't mother mature a kindly grandma? It is the subsistence hunters that are the fly in the ointment. The old motto "if it is brown it is going down" is the mantra of the subsistence hunter. Watch any of the Alaska reality shows. They are NOT trophy hunters. They shoot young or old, male or female. A trophy hunter takes an aging animal or two a year. Subsistence hunters take Many more. One northern village of 800 took 8,000 caribou in one year. 8,000. Many of these were to feed their dogs so they did not have to buy dog food. Watch as these people use a fish wheel to drain a river of fish just to feed their dogs. Snow machines that replace a dog team will help to increase the size of the herds and the number of fish in the rivers. Anyone who berates trophy hunting need to do some reading.

 

[da gimp]

at one time a resident hunter in Alaska could take 10 caribou/reindeer per year... if I remember right... for resident hunters .. the caribou/reindeer were the only animals that were allowed to be hunted on the same day that they flew in on... all others had to wait until the next day to hunt........it's been too long since my friend passed... correct me if I've misremembered guys.

 

[JJEH]

Point 1... to the two fellows who hate hunting.... jorge & wr.. that is how you hunt big cats & bears.... This is the United States of America... you are entitled to having your views too..

[...]

You did not refute a single point in any of my response... you just re-iterated your anti-hunting claims...

Well, first of all I do not hate hunting. Second of all I do not reiterate any anti-hunting claims that you accuse me of stating. Not sure at what time you've got a scent of that...

You might want to re-read the questions that I've asked. Those are btw. legit questions and as long as everything was legal the Dr. should enjoy his pricey trophy. Now, if that whole thing was illegal that's a whole different story.

 

[Rustyt1953]

When this story broke, most media outlets used the words "beheaded" and "skinned", insinuating some horrific act was performed, thereby stirring up their targeted audience.

Unless I live in an alternate universe, animals, whether killed for food or mounting, are dissected. I can't remember the last time I had Thumper served to me with the head still on.

 

[DeathGrip]

I heard on the local news tonight this lion described as regal, sleepy eyed and used to tourist.

Really Belkeys?

I about died.

 

[STCM(SW)]

Wonder what the same people would say about TR and his son Kermit
who hunted in Africa in 1909?
512 critter's of which 17 were Lion's.
TR then went to Stockholm to receive his Nobel Peace Prize!

 

[loknload]

Bottom line is whether or not the guy got set up? He paid the big bucks to go on the hunt in another country,,,that's his business and the countries business. Too many people in this country need to get their heads unstuck and they have way to much time on their hands!
Too many more important things to worry about than old Leo the Lion!

 

[vonn]

I believe in fairy tales more than the media. There's no such thing as a fair unbiased news report no matter who puts it out!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'm gonna wait to see how it plays out. If the PH turned himself in upon finding the collar than this may very well have been a mistake. Cecil in any event was not a tame house cat. If the hunt was fair chase and the shot taken he may very well have not noticed the collar-we just don't know based on the reporting. I'm willing to let this play out and not give a knee jerk reaction to the media posting. Ya got to admit though the way they have reported it, sounds like he shot somebody's pet lab If I ever win the lottery you can bet your backsides I'm gonna kill a LOT of exotic animals and skin them and decapitate them and hang them on the wall-and I'm gonna do it with a big old H&H double rifle carried by a gunbearer while wearing my Ramar of the Jungle hat. And after which I'm going to drink pink gin and quinine around the campfire and talk like Ernest Hemingway. And then I'm going to Cuba and deep sea fish with my mexican (or cuban) on my newly commissioned Rybovich 60 footer with oldtexmex as my capitan.
And I just might very well cap it off by buying a $3000+ 1911

 

[jtcarm]

Dunno about Zimbabwe, but here an animal wearing a tag or tracking collar is fair game. It just means they were part of a study at some time.

Innocent or not, the mans already been convicted in a trial by Twitter.

Guess Americans have forgotten about the 300 Nigerian school girls kidnapped by Boko Haram last year. They rate a good bit higher on my scale of concern than Cecil the lion.

 

[M29since14]

...If the information I've gotten in the mainstream media is correct Dr. maimed the animal with a shot from his bow then spent the next 40 hours tracking it and finally finished it with a rifle shot. To me there is nothing sporting about what the Dr. did.

If true, I couldn't agree more.

 

[sodacan]

I have no problem with hunters or hunting, but killing endangered species is just wrong. There's something wrong with someone who does it. There is no sport there.

 

[Bill Bates]

What bothers me most or better said just makes me sad is; all of the people condemning this guy when we don't begin to have all the facts. As usual these days we have a certain element going off half cocked and calling for blood. It reminds me of how many have called for police to go to jail for murder on so many of the recent police involved shootings. Of course that should come as no surprise it is a lot of the same people stirring the pot. The facts don't seem to matter. They have a lynch mob mentality and that is very sad.

He very well could be the victim of an unscrupulous PH and guide. He paid for permits that it appears were never obtained by the PH. We don't know if he was aware that the lion was lured out of the Park. The dentist paid his fee, he'll never see his trophy, his reputation and life has been ruined, he has gone into hiding and he very well be a victim of the dirt bag guide and PH.

Shooting big cats over bait is not illegal where the hunt took place. It is the norm. The guide would likely have whispered in the good doctors ear when to take the shot with his bow. Who knows wether the collar was visible (it sure isn't in any of the photos or videos I've seen of this lion) Who knows what the dentist knew or didn't know on this hunt.

At this point it doesn't seem the powers to be in the country where the hunt took place are interested in going after the Dr. Palmer.

So for the time being I'll hold off judgement on the dentist. If he knew what was going on then he should suffer the punishment. If he didn't then he is a victim and is owed much more than a refund on his hunt.

 

[Jst1mr]

I don't believe in trophy hunting, I know it happens and in most cases it's legal, so I'll say no more about that.

What I don't understand is the reason to hunt one of the most dangerous game animals in the world with a bow. I don't think the Dr. believed he would get a clean kill with an arrow.
If the information I've gotten in the mainstream media is correct Dr. maimed the animal with a shot from his bow then spent the next 40 hours tracking it and finally finished it with a rifle shot. To me there is nothing sporting about what the Dr. did.

Why the jab at bow hunting? A well-placed arrow will kill as quickly as anything else. A poorly placed shot with any weapon - rifle, bow, spear,etc. - will not be immediately fatal. No matter the skill level of the hunter, or the weapon being used, poor hits can and do happen. Doggedly following up on that poor hit and finishing the animal as soon as possible becomes the hunter's ethical responsibility. A heart/lung shot with a proper broadhead is much better than a gut shot with a .460 Weatherby...for any size animal.

 

[Onomea]

Zimbabwe is now trying to get the guy extradited back to Zimbabwe. If I understand the article correctly, the crime is the use of the crossbow. (But I may misunderstand, and the newspaper may have it wrong...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/w...l?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

 

[PatriotX]

Whether or not he knew the lion was collared at the time he made the shot is moot; the PH has admitted to finding the collar after the kill and placing it in a tree.

The doc was made aware of the collar, and he left the country knowing he killed a collared animal.

His prior hunting-related conviction doesn't fill me with confidence that he was acting with good intention. He knowingly killed a bear in a protected area and moved the carcass to a 'legal' zone to avoid the law.

To heck with this guy.

 

[cmort666]

Of all of the things I can worry about right now, that's not one of them.

I'm FAR more concerned with illegal aliens being allowed to run around and murder people, as recently happened here in Ohio and in San Francisco.

 

[Coldshooter]

at one time a resident hunter in Alaska could take 10 caribou/reindeer per year... if I remember right... for resident hunters .. the caribou/reindeer were the only animals that were allowed to be hunted on the same day that they flew in on... all others had to wait until the next day to hunt........it's been too long since my friend passed... correct me if I've misremembered guys.

It was a bit more complicated. Take 10 in select game management units if they were consumed within that GMU. An example Eagle Alaska on the south bank of the Yukon has a limit, not sure what it is this year, 300 yards across the river the limit was 10 but only 5 could be transported across to Eagle for consumption. Politicians messing with game laws which is why I feel sorry for good wildlife managers.

 

[Woodsman22]

"I get hunting for game management. You have too many of one animal you can thin the population. Do we have too many loins?"

- In the case of lions at least, that is an excellent point. If you believe Scientific American (and many other sources), lions are expected to go extinct by 2050. Not that far off, and there is political pressure to put lions on the endangered species list.
Hunting animals that are this close to being declared endangered is not doing the sport any favor nor helping the public image of hunting either. There is something about "canned hunts" of exotic animals that really just turns me (and the general public) off in a large way.
As to the doctor- well his dental practice is wrecked, and the latest at this point is that the government of Zimbabwe has asked for his extradition. The US has an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe and the current administration most likely is sympathetic to the Zimbabwe government. Read up about Zimbabwe and you will find that the place is one incredible horror. Inflation is up to Haitian levels there; meaning starvation is rampant. The government is incredibly corrupt. Bribery is needed to get anything done there, and the doctor is going to be spending a lot of his money on ahem; "legal fees". Zimbabwean prisons are incredibly bad. He made a huge mistake booking a hunt in that country; if he ends up in prison there, it will likely be the last mistake he ever made.