Majorlk
Member
Hogwash! Old wives tale from 50 years ago. It makes absolutely no difference whether the rifle is stored cocked or not.
Dry firing Question……
- Thread starter tinstartio
- Start date
Hogwash! Old wives tale from 50 years ago. It makes absolutely no difference whether the rifle is stored cocked or not.
Majorlk
Member
It makes ZERO difference. Store it like you want.
In my limited time with firearms, one thing I have learned is firearm springs are magical. If it was a valve spring, shock spring, fork spring, or even a door spring they all "sack" (lose there original rate) under prolonged compression.
Learn something new every day
Learn something new every day
RedNeck Jim
Member
In my limited time with firearms, one thing I have learned is firearm springs are magical. If it was a valve spring, shock spring, fork spring, or even a door spring they all "sack" (lose there original rate) under prolonged compression.
Learn something new every day
The springs you mention wear out from use... compress & relax. They don't wear out from just sitting there. Think of your car. Sitting there, the springs are under constant compression, and that does not harm them or wear them out. That car can sit there 20 years and the springs will still work just fine. However, running you car over rough terrain can cause wear. Once again, from the springs being stretched & compressed.
Firearm springs aren't magical. Under normal use, firearm springs just sit there the vast majority of the time. However if you shoot a lot all day, every day, some springs will wear.
CrazyFingers
Member
We both know this. I wanted to hear his reason.
I agree...
You are incorrect...
Yes they will work, but they will not retain their original rate...
Bud, I have been an engine and suspension builder for over 40 yrs...I am not spewing what I read on the internet somewhere, but rather real world testing.
But now we are off topic...and believe it or not I could care less.
CrazyFingers
Member
Firearm magazine and FCG springs wear from repeated compression/expansion cycles, not from static compression. Leave your magazines loaded 24/7/365, leave your hammer cocked the same, it will not harm them.
Or de-cock your hammer every time you put it in the safe, and hand-cycle your magazines every 24 hours, makes no difference to me. But the spring manufacturers will love you. They need the sales.
Or de-cock your hammer every time you put it in the safe, and hand-cycle your magazines every 24 hours, makes no difference to me. But the spring manufacturers will love you. They need the sales.
Vinney47
Member
I dunno. There are accounts all over the internet and real life, with the pictures and damaged firearms that show contrary. Both damage to the firing pin and/or the breech from dry firing.
I guess it's not an "every rimfire firearm" problem. But an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of intervention. Probably best not to dry fire your rimfire a whole lot.
Brett248Vista
Member
I typically agree with you wholeheartedly but on this issue sir, I simply can not agree. Perhaps on the 15-22 the firing pin is not
long enough to reach. But we are basing this assumption on a
few measured firearms, what happens if one is out of spec?
I just think it's best NOT to dry fire Rimfire at all. Here are a
few examples of chamber damage (took 10 seconds on Google).
I can agree that some things are based in myth and superstition but this is one that has genuine credence.
As always it's your firearm and your mileage may vary!
Alan Roberts
Member
Firearms vary, and even individual 15-22s are going to vary, but FWIW ...
On my bolt, with a good steel straight edge across the front face of the bolt (i.e., the plane where the bolt and chamber will meet), and the firing pin fully depressed and held that way under pressure, the forward face of the firing pin does not cross the bolt/chamber contact plane. I don't have any feeler gauges that are narrow enough to measure the gap, but by eyeball & bright lighting, the gap looked slightly thinner than the edge of 20-lb printer paper. I believe 20-lb printer paper averages 0.0038 inch thickness, so I'm SWAGing the clearance at 0.002 inch or so.
The online (take appropriate grain of salt) dimension for the rim thickness of .22lr is 0.040 inch, so a firing pin extension of approximately 0.038 inch would still provide plenty of compression of the rim to trigger the primer when a round is present.
Granted a long firing pin, or wear and tear on whatever component(s) bring it to a stop (spring and/or bolt and firing pin surfaces?) could eliminate that 0.002 clearance.
However, looking down at the bolt face the "nose" of my firing pin seems to have about 0.024 inch of clearance from the outer edge of the recessed portion of the bolt (caliper and those pesky eyeballs once again). Referring to the cartridge dimensions again, I see 0.272 inch (rim diameter) minus 0.224 inch (brass diameter) = 0.048 inch divided by 2 = 0.024 inch. Almost looks like a plan to me ...
I'm going with the theory that for my bolt and firing pin if a wear situation ever allows the dry-fired firing pin to cross the bolt/breech plane it will travel into the chamber, with little or no impact on the breech edge of the chamber (at least probably, without a cartridge actually forcing bolt-to-chamber alignment, the tolerances of the rails the bolt rides on are in-play).
I am perfectly willing to believe that other rimfire weapons have a firing pin which would impact the rear edge of the chamber. In fact, vague memory is that this forum reported S&W changing the firing pin on the 15-22 in response to out-of-battery firing??? So those of you with older 15-22s may have a firing pin which could cause damage.
I think that if I spend any bad-weather time during the winter months at home doing the Appleseed-recommended NPOA / dry-firing drills, I am only putting my firing pin and spring at risk. By springtime I should have enough dry-firing in to see if my theory holds or not.
If firing pin or spring break, I don't expect S&W to replace them for free, but I certainly hope they will sell me replacement parts. Come to think of it, I have spares for my HBAR, I ought to go ahead and buy spares for the 15-22. Back to the forum to look for something with part numbers!
Cheers,
Alan
Brett248Vista
Member
Great post Alan and yes we have part numbers! 
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The reason that many people object to dry fire of a rimfire is because of the possibility of damaging the edge of the chamber, since that is where the firing pin impacts the rim of the cartridge during firing. Without a cartridge, so goes the argument, the firing pin strikes, or can strike, the edge of the chamber causing damage to the chamber or the firing pin.
Majorlk
Member
Folks, we are talking about, primarily, the 15-22. Yes, there are firearms that the firing pin WILL touch the breech face, especially some rimfire revolvers, but that does not apply to the 15-22.
You have to use some common sense, people, and look at what happens with any particular firearm.
That said, it's your firearm and your decision.
You have to use some common sense, people, and look at what happens with any particular firearm.
That said, it's your firearm and your decision.
CrazyFingers
Member
For what it's worth, the firing pin on my Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 does not extend far enough at full extension to touch the breech face.
RedNeck Jim
Member
Seems to me, if one needed to dry fire the weapon, say to uncock it, why not just break open the gun & pull the trigger? Why try to pull the charging handle back some after triple checking the gun is unloaded? With the gun open, there is no firing pin or chamber issues... plus no way to accidentally fire off a round.
I just put on an ambi safety & dry fired the gun numerous times for a safety/function check. However I did so with the lower separated from the upper. Same when I added my CMC trigger. All function checks were done with the gun broken open. I can't think of a reason why I would want to dry fire with the upper & lower joined. Not like it takes any tools or effort to separate them.
I just put on an ambi safety & dry fired the gun numerous times for a safety/function check. However I did so with the lower separated from the upper. Same when I added my CMC trigger. All function checks were done with the gun broken open. I can't think of a reason why I would want to dry fire with the upper & lower joined. Not like it takes any tools or effort to separate them.
Just make sure to catch the hammer rather than let it hit the back of the magwell if you do this. Letting the hammer drop into the lower receiver can damage them.
Dry firing with the upper and lower together is a good way to practice trigger control and general stability. Doing it with a laser attached (rail mount or boresight type) can help you see jerkiness, flinch, etc.
RedNeck Jim
Member
Yep, I do that & should have mentioned to catch the hammer. Thanks for catching that.
I personally don't think dry firing is a good way to practice trigger control, but that is just me. If I'm gonna practice, it will be trigger control with the associated bang. Granted, I have a home shooting range so my experiences are different than many.
On a side note, I absolutely love my ambi safety & can see where it is great for all shooters... both lefty & righty.
http://www.simpleweaponsolutions.com/bad-***-15-22
I personally don't think dry firing is a good way to practice trigger control, but that is just me. If I'm gonna practice, it will be trigger control with the associated bang. Granted, I have a home shooting range so my experiences are different than many.
On a side note, I absolutely love my ambi safety & can see where it is great for all shooters... both lefty & righty.
http://www.simpleweaponsolutions.com/bad-***-15-22
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