Dumb question - what screwdriver?

[jmace57]

Sorry for the dumb/newby question here.

I am removing the sideplate off of a M&P .38 Special from the 19-teens. The first 3 screws came off without significant issues, although I am convinced there is a lot of grunge inside the workings. When I removed the first 3 screws, remnants of grease or coagulated oil came out with them.

However, when I am trying to remove the topmost larger screw, I can't seem to find any screwdriver that will fit it. None of them are thin enough to fit in the channel. I have two separate sets of gunsmith screwdrivers and it's true of both sets.

Is there a special screwdriver needed for this? Anyone know how to find one? What it's description would be?

Many thanks all. Jim

 

[armorer951]

Why not dress down/narrow the blade on one of your existing screwdrivers to fit the slot? It may help to clean the slot thoroughly also....there may be some compacted dirt, etc. in there. Looks like the slot has already sustained some damage.

 

[Louchia]

I agree with armorer951. Sometimes a tool has to be modified for a specific use. Happen all the time with mechanics and service men. As time goes by, tool boxes are filled with modified tools for special use.

 

[jmace57]

Thanks gents. That's what I'll do.

EDIT: took a Dremel tool to one of the spare screwdriver bits, and it worked like a charm. Thanks

 

[chief38]

When working on guns it's not uncommon that a custom fitted screwdriver blade needs to be made. When people finally realize that the single best thing they can buy as a gun owner is a high quality Hollow Ground screwdriver set, I always suggest that they buy the special sized grinding wheel (sold by Brownell's as well) to custom grinds any bits they might need in the future.

Even when you buy the entire Master Set that Brownell's sells there are still times a custom bit needs to be made. I also save old screwdrivers that have worn out and have chipped ends to custom grind some specialty bits as needed.

 

[howiema]

Brownells S&W screw tip set they are the best.

Pete

 

[smokindog]

I just bought the Brownells 58 bit Master Set Plus (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...a-tip-sets/magna-tip-super-sets--prod417.aspx). I also picked up the 8 piece Grace set from Cabelas bargain cave for $17 (Grace USA Gun Care Screwdriver Set : Cabela's). They also have an 11 piece set.

The bit set is well made and it's fairly complete. It will come in handy on the bench. I had to convince myself to buy it. In general, I'm not a big fan of "bits" because how "loose" they can be in the handles. It's always best to reduce any possibility of the blade changing position even in the slightest on tough screws (same reason a wrench can be better for a tough bolt). I do agree with the comments about making "custom tools". My dad had drawers full of tools made for single purpose use and shaped/ground on his work bench.

Even with the "proper" bits and my Tipton "Best Gun Vise", I still had one screw on my brand new Uberti 1873 carbine that would not break free (one of the spring screws on the bottom). I buggered it up pretty good and probably need to take it to the smith for removal but for now I've cleaned it and am going to enjoy!! I don't blame the bits as Uberti is known for their trained gorilla that tightens screws. I ordered a complete screw set from VTI gun parts just to have on hand for the future. If anyone has any suggestions for removing the spring screws, I'm all ears

 

[Big Cholla]

As A Matter of Fact.......

After determining that the screw thread is in fact right hand or left hand;Try: 1; a carefully hollow ground quality screwdriver blade that can be mounted in an Impact Driver. 2; apply a penetrating oil like 'Kroil' for 24 hours. 3; mount gun frame solidly in a padded or protected vise. 4; apply a little heat from a strong soldering iron or a butane torch. 5; gently tap the Impact Driver while applying torque to it. The screw will either back out or will break off. If it breaks off it will have to be drilled out and then an easy-out used on it.

 

[smokindog]

After determining that the screw thread is in fact right hand or left hand;Try: 1; a carefully hollow ground quality screwdriver blade that can be mounted in an Impact Driver. 2; apply a penetrating oil like 'Kroil' for 24 hours. 3; mount gun frame solidly in a padded or protected vise. 4; apply a little heat from a strong soldering iron or a butane torch. 5; gently tap the Impact Driver while applying torque to it. The screw will either back out or will break off. If it breaks off it will have to be drilled out and then an easy-out used on it.

Those Brownells magna-tips I bought are hollow ground as are the Grace screwdrivers.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is the heat.... I think I've buggered up the slot too much now to use the impact wrench. I'll be honest, the first time someone mentioned an impact wrench as a gunsmith tool I kinda rolled my eyes

It's a VERY small screw. It also looks like many suggest rotating the spring out of the frame to release tension. Need to be cautious to not scratch things up...

Never thought you could put screws in this tight without stripping them or breaking off the heads

Screw 124
http://www.uberti.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/1873_sporting_rifle.pdf

 

[Big Cholla]

Ok, I agree the Impact Driver is probably overkill for that little screw. Here is another way to go; Create a screwdriver bit that matches the profile of what you have left for a slot as close as possible. Take a little time to create this one-of bit. When you are satisfied with the bit, put a dab of valve grinding compound in the slot. Make sure the bit is free of oils. You have done the penetrating oil and heat by this time. Now while the handgun is being securely held with that screw head pointed vertical, have someone else use about a 4 to 6 oz. hammer to gently tap the top of your screwdriver handle while you apply torque to the screw head. The valve grinding compound helps prevent slippage, the tapping jars the screw threads and really helps them break loose and start rotation. You watch the screw head and the fit of the screwdriver bit very closely while this is going on. If the screwdriver continues to deform the screw head without turning the screw you are probably going to have to resort to precision drilling and use a a tiny easyout. Some Smiths I have known prefer to use a left handed twist drill instead of the easy out. Drill a pilot hole a couple or three sizes smaller than the left handed drill bit. Then very carefully at a very slow speed feed in the left handed drill bit. It should be sized just shy of the minor diameter of the screw and must be perfectly centered. This is the kind of TLC experienced Gunsmiths get very good at. Customers bring in a lot of buggered up screw heads. Good luck.

 

[chief38]

Soak the stubborn screw with some Kroil overnight or at least an hour or so and reapply if it dries. Sometimes it helps to heat it up with a soldering iron just prior to loosening it. Sometimes I use a small Butane Torch to apply a little heat to the SCREWDRIVER BLADE which transfers it to the screw.

If you have a Drill Press you can chuck the hollow ground screwdriver bit in it and have someone hold the gun steady on the drill press table (use a rag or rubber mat to prevent scratching. While they are holding the gun steady apply a moderate amount of downward pressure with the quill handle of the press and MANUALLY turn the chuck with your hand. You are basically using the drill press as a big screwdriver while applying steady and straight downward pressure to keep the bit from jumping out of the screw slot. It's not a bad idea to unplug the drill press prior to doing this just to make sure it does not get turned on.

I have had to drill out a few impossible screws and bolts in my time but so far NEVER on a Firearm - only on Motorcycles and other equipment that friends own. I learned to take out screws and bolts properly a long time ago but some of the friends and neighbors I have are still learning. All those were done with miniature diamond bits and I took my sweet time being careful all the way. All were done with no damage to the equipment, the threads or finish but it's something you only want to do as the last resort. One of my friends broke a Tap inside a motorcycle thread and that was the hardest thing I ever had to remove. It took several diamond bits and a few hours but everything turned out A-OK.

Hope this helps!

 

[usnrigger]

What chief38 said

I good run around driver kit, that I suggest to people that want to work on stuff at home alittle is one I find at walmart in the gun cleaning section comes in a little red box with clear top. It has hollow ground type blades and some good thin ones as well, it's not the best bit covers 80% or so. It the set I carry in my mobile repair box when at the range or hunting. They are more cast , but have a hollow grind profile, I just bump the blades end on a belt grinder the square up the bottom as some og them have a slight rounded profile at the very tip.

Let it soak and if need be transfer heat via propane to driver tip, I may take a couple heat transfers to get the screw to soak up the heat.

 

[smokindog]

I like the drill press idea, I was trying to think of a way to keep the bit "down in the slot". I think if I take my gun vise I can make it secure on the table of the press.

I've tried 2 or 3 different penetrating oils that I've use on rusty/seized bolts in the past. I'll order up some Kroil as that seems to be the favorite here.

As I've already said, I think I've buggered up the slot too much at this point. When my first attempt to break the screws free failed, I was about to just take the gun to the smith, pay him for a complete dis-assembly/cleaning and then know I had all the screw broken free at least once.

I have a feeling I'm like most here and thought that I'd rather spend the $150 (or whatever) on new tools and with new tools, I could achieve anything!!!!!! I'm guessing this thing will have a date with the gunsmith in its future.

I will try the options put forth here but since there is nothing wrong with the gun at this point, I need (want) to take it out and make it go bang a few hundred times!!! Who knows, maybe that will loosen the screws as well!

Thanks folks and OP, sorry for the hi-jack

Soak the stubborn screw with some Kroil overnight or at least an hour or so and reapply if it dries. Sometimes it helps to heat it up with a soldering iron just prior to loosening it. Sometimes I use a small Butane Torch to apply a little heat to the SCREWDRIVER BLADE which transfers it to the screw.

If you have a Drill Press you can chuck the hollow ground screwdriver bit in it and have someone hold the gun steady on the drill press table (use a rag or rubber mat to prevent scratching. While they are holding the gun steady apply a moderate amount of downward pressure with the quill handle of the press and MANUALLY turn the chuck with your hand. You are basically using the drill press as a big screwdriver while applying steady and straight downward pressure to keep the bit from jumping out of the screw slot. It's not a bad idea to unplug the drill press prior to doing this just to make sure it does not get turned on.

I have had to drill out a few impossible screws and bolts in my time but so far NEVER on a Firearm - only on Motorcycles and other equipment that friends own. I learned to take out screws and bolts properly a long time ago but some of the friends and neighbors I have are still learning. All those were done with miniature diamond bits and I took my sweet time being careful all the way. All were done with no damage to the equipment, the threads or finish but it's something you only want to do as the last resort. One of my friends broke a Tap inside a motorcycle thread and that was the hardest thing I ever had to remove. It took several diamond bits and a few hours but everything turned out A-OK.

Hope this helps!

 

[DWalt]

The drill press method has worked a few times for me when nothing else would. I bought a set of about 50 different bits of all types and sizes in a nice case with a couple of different handles pretty cheap at a gun show about 10 years ago. I haven't yet run into a screw I can't find a bit to fit in that selection.