Durned if I ever saw such hard, tight primers!

[rwsmith]

Broken decapping pins often occur with Berdan primers, rarely with Boxer primers unless the flash hole is undersized or off center. I cannot imagine a primer crimp being so tight that decapping would result in broken pins and I don't think a lacquer or tar sealer would cause that either.

I'm glad people are as mystified as I am. I've deprimed military 5.56 cases and the only problem is getting primers back in if you don't ream the pocket. The ones that I was able to deprime, I loaded and shot.

 

[rwsmith]

RW, please take a pic of a decapped case so we can ascertain whether you’re dealing with Boxer or Berdan. If they were Berdan primed, you wouldn’t have been able to get any of the primers out. But it’s the internet, and all sorts of impossible things happen.

From what I gather, the growing trend in ammo manufacturing is to crimp the primer of any case that could possibly end up in a semi auto. Decapping pins break. Period. I’ve broken more than my fair share; Hornady and RCBS are not interchangeable. RCBS sells decapping pins by the 6 pack. What’s that tell you?

Doesn’t Dillon make some specialty tool for just such an application?

I don't have any deprimed cases right now. I'll post a picture when I've got one. I know what berdan primers are, other military calibers have gotten mixed in my brass and they don't deprime with a regular decapping pin very well . You have to pry them out. Whoever does this must be really hard up for cases, maybe unobtanium. But these do have one, large single hole in the center of the pocket. You can see the dent in the center of the primer dent where the decapper touched it in the picture. They could be off center, but I used a Lee hand decapper rod from their handloader tools and felt around for the hole and didn't rap it until it was home. Still didn't work. Fortunately, I have plenty of pins, but I'm going to figure out something better because at this rate I'll go through them in a day and still have un-decapped cases. I haven't broken this many pins in 45 years of reloading.

 

[rwsmith]

What depriming dies are you using. Use a LEE, you really have to try and break those! But as mentioned sure the are not Berdan??

The first die was a Lee and yes it took some doing. I worked around, check alignment, all of the 'easy does it' checks and finally put enough pressure on it til it snapped. Then I set up an RCBS die for a bigger cartridge just for decapping and had some luck, but still broke pins. Then I tried the Lee handtool decap rod an even some thin items on my workbench (I used to have an icepick but I'm going to have to get another one. Dull the point a little.

And yeah, I'm VERY sure they are not berdan. I would have even attempted reloading berdan cases. And the ones I decapped I've loaded and shot. I'm going to deprime some right now and come back with a picture.

 

[rwsmith]

I SECOND THAT............

OK, you guys just wait.

 

[rwsmith]

Where is the brass from?
I can’t tell from your photos.
IMI?

I'll have to find out.

 

[rwsmith]

No updates in a week on the question of Berdan primer or undersized flash holes. Hmmmmm.

Sorry, pretty busy these days. I'll be back with more info.

 

[rwsmith]

Here ya go. I'm having a lot of tech trouble. More later. 'Belom' is one of the marks. You can see where I beveled the pockets. These three all deprimed no problem after beveling.

 

[rwsmith]

Crimped primers almost never can cause this hard of an issue to deprime. The only way I experienced this is when I encountered undersized flash holes from some international ammo I didn't recognize. I've had the pin stick in the hole and had to pound it out from inside the case. That would ruin your loading session for a while.

Now that we are clear on the Boxer/Berdan issue, I'd like to reiterate that they all gave a VERY loud PING! when the primers came out and they shot clear across the room out of the slot under the shellholder smacking into stuff with very little drop. I've NEVER had such a crazy time depriming cases. None of them were easy to remove.

I'm not an expert on military cases but I've seen them more 'staked' in than crimped like these. It appears that in this case the manufacturer had a tool in their process that swaged a rim all around the primer deep in into the pocket, down to where the fillet on the primer edge starts.

I have a hard time hanging on to brass from my SKS. It shoots the cases into orbit. I really hate losing any, but I can't be breaking reloading pins right and left. I'll probably have to cough up money for some new Starline brass. And try to keep it. I made a 'deflector' to fit on my SKS to keep the ejected cases under control. I'd better start using it if I want to keep the brass.

 

[stansdds]

Thank you for the update, indeed, Boxer primed, but very odd with such a tight primer crimp. Any evidence of a primer sealant? I'm wondering if maybe some sort of a Loctite-like sealer was used in addition to an overly generous crimp.

 

[David Sinko]

I've been reloading 7.62X39 for a long time. Every new headstamp can be an adventure. I have not yet experienced your depriming problem but I have never used that brass. My biggest complaint is primer pockets that actually get tighter with use. My suggestion would be to throw them away and move on. I have a brass catcher for the AKMs and when I'm shooting an SKS with good brass I prop up a piece of plywood so that the brass will bounce back where it can be retrieved. I have done all the load development I need to do and my only rifle that sees Boxer primed brass on a regular basis these days is a CZ 527.

 

[rwsmith]

Thank you for the update, indeed, Boxer primed, but very odd with such a tight primer crimp. Any evidence of a primer sealant? I'm wondering if maybe some sort of a Loctite-like sealer was used in addition to an overly generous crimp.

No sealant than I could see. It seems like SOME kind of residue would show. Many used to have a color so that it could be seen. Maybe they are using Super Glue.

 

[6string]

For depriming, I wonder if you’d have better luck with the “hammer type” tool that comes in the Lee Loader kits?
Alternatively, you can try this method used with Berdan primers: with the case held in a bench vise, headstamp up, puncture the primer with a hammer & nail, then pry the primer out.
I’d be tempted to try and drill through the primer, then pry it out if the above methods didn’t work.
Once removed, I’d swage the primer pocket to uniform dimensions.

Good luck!!

 

[DocSkinner]

While normally a RCBS lover, I have switched to the Lee universal deprimers. Had too many various issues with all the other brands. So far the Lee has worked flawlessly for me on many calibers, and milspec as well.

 

[TaxPhd]

Here ya go. I'm having a lot of tech trouble. More later. 'Belom' is one of the marks. You can see where I beveled the pockets. These three all deprimed no problem after beveling.

Your picture of deprimed brass shows completely different cases then are shown in your pictures of primed brass. They’re not the same cases. . .

 

[David Sinko]

I think the two with the primers still in are Barnaul. I don't recall ever seeing that headstamp on brass. Are you sure those two aren't Berdan primed steel?

 

[rwsmith]

Your picture of deprimed brass shows completely different cases then are shown in your pictures of primed brass. They’re not the same cases. . .

True. They are some that I shot and recovered, the only ones I have that are deprimed. I'll be able to examine others when I shoot them. They were all VERY tough to deprime. And I did inspect all the cases and none were Berdan primed. In spite of what everybody is saying I've run across Berdan primed cases in other calibers in 45 years of reloading and when they wouldn't deprime, I'd shine a light down and see the double flash hole.

 

[rwsmith]

While normally a RCBS lover, I have switched to the Lee universal deprimers. Had too many various issues with all the other brands. So far the Lee has worked flawlessly for me on many calibers, and milspec as well.

I may have to get one of those. Or just use new brass. After the trouble I had I don't think any once shot brass would be worth messing with.

 

[CactusCapt]

Odd- I haven't had any issues depriming Belom brass. I use a Mighty Armory decapper with an old single stage RCBS Jr. for all my depriming to keep the 550 clean(er).

 

[Dan W. Cady]

I don't have any deprimed cases right now. I'll post a picture when I've got one. I know what berdan primers are, other military calibers have gotten mixed in my brass and they don't deprime with a regular decapping pin very well . You have to pry them out. Whoever does this must be really hard up for cases, maybe unobtanium. But these do have one, large single hole in the center of the pocket. You can see the dent in the center of the primer dent where the decapper touched it in the picture. They could be off center, but I used a Lee hand decapper rod from their handloader tools and felt around for the hole and didn't rap it until it was home. Still didn't work. Fortunately, I have plenty of pins, but I'm going to figure out something better because at this rate I'll go through them in a day and still have un-decapped cases. I haven't broken this many pins in 45 years of reloading.

I recently discovered some 5.56 Military brass with very small flash holes and broke decapping pins. I then found some pins that were smaller diameter at the end and had no further issues. I believe they were from Hornady. I use a 22-250 size die with this pin and have not broken a pin is thousands of cases.

 

[JimTheo12]

Now that we are clear on the Boxer/Berdan issue, I'd like to reiterate that they all gave a VERY loud PING! when the primers came out and they shot clear across the room out of the slot under the shellholder smacking into stuff with very little drop. I've NEVER had such a crazy time depriming cases. None of them were easy to remove.

I'm not an expert on military cases but I've seen them more 'staked' in than crimped like these. It appears that in this case the manufacturer had a tool in their process that swaged a rim all around the primer deep in into the pocket, down to where the fillet on the primer edge starts.

I have a hard time hanging on to brass from my SKS. It shoots the cases into orbit. I really hate losing any, but I can't be breaking reloading pins right and left. I'll probably have to cough up money for some new Starline brass. And try to keep it. I made a 'deflector' to fit on my SKS to keep the ejected cases under control. I'd better start using it if I want to keep the brass.

Interesting. In these sort of cases I typically would use a primer pocket uniformer tool like the Franford primer pocket swager that would uniformly decrimp and correct the diameter of the pocket. I run all my military brass.through it. Works great.
I then follow up with a primer pocket depth cutter tool to uniform the seating depth. Surprisingly this alone improves some accuracy.