Dust cover....is it really needed?
- Thread starter cyphertext
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cyphertext
US Veteran
Oh yes....with new video demonstrations! 
If (and assuming the typical paper puncher/plinker/critter hitter/sport shooter type):
1. You are in a very dirty environment (desert, dusty, dirt, etc...), you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
2. You are going to lay your weapon on the dirt as the guy in the video did, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
3. You are in the rain, although not a waterproof seal, you probably could benefit from a dust cover. (because it will help keep direct rain fall from entering the weapon).
4. You plan on covering the rifle with dirt or intentionally throwing dirt into the weapon, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
5. You plan to produce movies showing intentionally treating the weapon in an unrealistic manner as shown in the video above, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
6. You have a requirement, policy, necessity, need, or have made a choice, to have a dust cover, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
7. You have a requirement or policy that when a weapon is not in use and racked or stored the dust cover will be closed, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
Now, why do I say that "you probably could benefit from a dust cover" in 1 - 7 above? Aside from a practical application, its because generally people who can aford to intentionally mis-treat their rifles like in the video just for the sake of showing an unrealistic point (guy even mentions at one point its unrealistic) are not generally the people who shell out their cash to buy your weapons for you so this means the choice is up to the individual weapon owner.
The video has nothing to do with the dust cover really, the guy is demonstrating the weapon function even when subjected to dirt (which indicates the need for a dust cover anyway). If he had the dust cover shut all the time then he probably would not have had much of a video. If you have a dust cover or don't have a dust cover, its your rifle and the choice is an individual choice to have or not. I don't see why people get so "do i need a dust cover..." discussional and confused when the choice is theirs. If you have one it doesn't get in the way and doesn't hinder you - if you don't have one it doesn't get in the way and doesn't hinder you - it all comes down to what the individual wants for their weapon, their needs, their requirements, and their use of the weapon.
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I personally think a dust cover is needed for a platform like this. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, plus I have a need for a dust cover on my weapons, and I close mine all the time when the weapon is not in use. Training, education, experience tells me a dust cover is needed, of course I do things with my weapons the average shooter doesn't. There is a reason why the dust cover exists. However, for the paper puncher/plinker/critter hitter/sport shooter type its something they can choose to have or not and would probably not suffer any consequences from not having a dust cover if their weapon is not subjected to the things in the seven items above (or in the video).
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1. You are in a very dirty environment (desert, dusty, dirt, etc...), you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
2. You are going to lay your weapon on the dirt as the guy in the video did, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
3. You are in the rain, although not a waterproof seal, you probably could benefit from a dust cover. (because it will help keep direct rain fall from entering the weapon).
4. You plan on covering the rifle with dirt or intentionally throwing dirt into the weapon, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
5. You plan to produce movies showing intentionally treating the weapon in an unrealistic manner as shown in the video above, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
6. You have a requirement, policy, necessity, need, or have made a choice, to have a dust cover, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
7. You have a requirement or policy that when a weapon is not in use and racked or stored the dust cover will be closed, you probably could benefit from a dust cover.
Now, why do I say that "you probably could benefit from a dust cover" in 1 - 7 above? Aside from a practical application, its because generally people who can aford to intentionally mis-treat their rifles like in the video just for the sake of showing an unrealistic point (guy even mentions at one point its unrealistic) are not generally the people who shell out their cash to buy your weapons for you so this means the choice is up to the individual weapon owner.
The video has nothing to do with the dust cover really, the guy is demonstrating the weapon function even when subjected to dirt (which indicates the need for a dust cover anyway). If he had the dust cover shut all the time then he probably would not have had much of a video. If you have a dust cover or don't have a dust cover, its your rifle and the choice is an individual choice to have or not. I don't see why people get so "do i need a dust cover..." discussional and confused when the choice is theirs. If you have one it doesn't get in the way and doesn't hinder you - if you don't have one it doesn't get in the way and doesn't hinder you - it all comes down to what the individual wants for their weapon, their needs, their requirements, and their use of the weapon.
********************************************
I personally think a dust cover is needed for a platform like this. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, plus I have a need for a dust cover on my weapons, and I close mine all the time when the weapon is not in use. Training, education, experience tells me a dust cover is needed, of course I do things with my weapons the average shooter doesn't. There is a reason why the dust cover exists. However, for the paper puncher/plinker/critter hitter/sport shooter type its something they can choose to have or not and would probably not suffer any consequences from not having a dust cover if their weapon is not subjected to the things in the seven items above (or in the video).
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Wow!! That is pretty darn impressive!!!
So much for needing a dust cover..
So much for needing a dust cover..
Stebo
Member
The best pro dust cover argument I've seen - no dust cover, dirt finds it's way into the trigger action.
Certainly not a real world argument for the typical range shooter, but if you are preparing for a possible EOTWAWKI scenario, this might convince you.
To be honest, I don't understand S&W leaving off the dust cover on the Sport. What's the savings, how many lost buyers because it doesn't have the dust cover?
Certainly not a real world argument for the typical range shooter, but if you are preparing for a possible EOTWAWKI scenario, this might convince you.
To be honest, I don't understand S&W leaving off the dust cover on the Sport. What's the savings, how many lost buyers because it doesn't have the dust cover?
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OP
cyphertext
US Veteran
The dirt only found it's way into the trigger because he purposely threw it there. If you aren't throwing a handful of dirt into the action, you won't get it in there.
The cost savings by not putting the dust cover on one rifle is insignificant, but when multiplied by hundreds of thousands of rifles, it is great. I would say that S&W didn't lose any buyers because of leaving it off...the Sport is typically out of stock. And, if you want the dust cover, they have models that have one for you.
OP
cyphertext
US Veteran
Would you please not try to kill my thread with logical statements such as this before it gets going good?
I agree...your firearm, your choice. I just don't think it is the end of the world to not have one. My rifle is a recreational use rifle, shoots paper and hogs. Rides in the bed of my truck, or on a rack in a jeep, bolt closed, magazine inserted. Gets covered in dust similar to how he threw a handful of dirt on the closed bolt. Have not had any issues. YMMV
Of course, he was using a Colt...who knows how the Sport would actually hold up!
(running for cover) 
Plazzman
Member
You know with are without a dust cover, AR's are not hermetically sealed. 
Stebo
Member
You can buy an "Ejection Port Cover Assy" (cover, pin, spring, clip) for $5.50 from Midway. 2nd quarter last year S&W had modern sporting rifle sales of $15 million, so of that amount only a few thousand rifles at most would be Sports. You must also add back the cost of engineering and separately producing a 2nd style of upper (or do they buy those from a 2nd source?) - economy of scale.
I can tell you for certain that S&W lost sales solely because of the dust cover, and the individuals bought a competitor instead. I know because I led them to the Sport.
I do hunt in some dirty dusty places but I rarely lay my rifle on the ground, my Sport now has an M4 upper so it has a dust cover but my homebuilt has the Sport upper and doesnt have a dust cover. They both get dirty, my 22 doesnt have a dust cover and it gets really grimy in there. I personally dont see the necessity of a dust cover but my life doesnt depend upon it, and when my life did depend upon it I swapped it out for an M60. Its all in what you do and what you want. Personally I would never take any of my rifles and lay them in loose dirt and throw handfulls of dirt on them. As Foxtrot said and I paraphrase, I buy mine and would never treat any of them like that. But I also dont make video's of how to cause intentional wear and tear on my guns. but please keep putting these videos up, great knowledge to be learned from them.
did you notice that he had his muzzle in the dirt and actually pushed dirt with the A2 flash hider, I myself would have checked the barrel for an obstruction, but I buy my rifles and if one blew up I would have to dig up the money to replace it. LOL
did you notice that he had his muzzle in the dirt and actually pushed dirt with the A2 flash hider, I myself would have checked the barrel for an obstruction, but I buy my rifles and if one blew up I would have to dig up the money to replace it. LOL
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OP
cyphertext
US Veteran
It isn't just the cost of the part, but also the machining needed to add it. They pay a one time cost to make the "mold" (not sure what the piece that shapes the aluminum in a forging is called) and then the savings in production cover that cost and eventually, through economies of scale, result in profit. Think of it this way, if S&W isn't seeing a significant cost savings in production of the Sport, yet they can price it where they do, then their other rifles must be overpriced. If the Sport had a dust cover and still remained at the same price point, how many sales would the Sport cannibalize from the rest of the lineup?
And sure, some are turned off by lack of cover, but when they are out of stock and you are running a backlog, you are selling every one that is produced...I wouldn't say they are losing sales.
Stebo
Member
EXACTLY! Now you're catching on. A lack of dust cover on the Sport has nothing to do with the "does it need it or not" question, and certainly not because it might add another $5 to the price. It has strictly to do with marketing. They had to remove some items to make it the "entry level" M&P yet keep it from stealing to many sales from the more expensive offerings.
That's quite impressive.
I would like to see some before and after pics of the BCG, trigger assembly, feed ramps, chamber and barrel.
It would be interesting to know how long the rifle would function, after cleaning, under "normal" conditions after this test.
I would like to see some before and after pics of the BCG, trigger assembly, feed ramps, chamber and barrel.
It would be interesting to know how long the rifle would function, after cleaning, under "normal" conditions after this test.
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To be honest, I never close the dust cover on my AR, but I'd miss it if it weren't there.
All the military versions I've seen have a dust cover. It kinda' makes it official. Secondly, AR's, including mine, run wet. If it were exposed for any length of time, wind borne dust would attach itself to the bolt and receiver. I'm not much of a hunter, but I've fallen enough over things less obtrusive than tree roots and slippery rocks to say I'd never fall with a rifle in my hands.
I've fallen a couple of times carrying an expensive camera. The cameras stayed clean and dry, because they're expensive and bodies heal. Guns are expensive and hurt people if mistreated, so the same rules apply.
From the case to the bench and back, why bother with it?
All the military versions I've seen have a dust cover. It kinda' makes it official. Secondly, AR's, including mine, run wet. If it were exposed for any length of time, wind borne dust would attach itself to the bolt and receiver. I'm not much of a hunter, but I've fallen enough over things less obtrusive than tree roots and slippery rocks to say I'd never fall with a rifle in my hands.
I've fallen a couple of times carrying an expensive camera. The cameras stayed clean and dry, because they're expensive and bodies heal. Guns are expensive and hurt people if mistreated, so the same rules apply.
From the case to the bench and back, why bother with it?
Maddmax
US Veteran
Maybe some. But there are other's like me that just buy a grade up of the same model (called loyality) and go that route too.
TangoFoxtrot
US Veteran
From my time spent in the sandbox yeah maybe the dust cover helped but mine was popped open most of the time anyway. I used dry lube to keep my BCG moving smoothly. For most civilian uss the DC doesn't matter a lot of rifles don't have them anyway.
