How about the Georgia Court of Appeals? Is that enough documentation for you?
Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)
Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)
Duty to inform?
- Thread starter ladder13
- Start date
cmort666
Member
And it was NOPD "internal affairs" that dealt with the problem, right? Not so much... and not so much in any of the other incidents I listed.
If Atlanta PD "internal affairs" didn't deal with a home invasion, murder, and coverup by its own officers, do you REALLY think they're on top of much lesser offenses?
If NOPD "internal affairs" didn't deal with a SERIES of murders and a coverup by its own officers, do you REALLY think they're on top of "rudeness regarding CCW permits"?
jtpur
Member
Great point. I get stopped and I hand over my DL.....I too dont like "Flashing the tin." It's disrespectful, and arrogant. Under LEOSA I do not belive there is any requirement to notify. That I believe would be up to an individual state. There may be some law requiring notification to notify if armed, but then that presents all kind of 5th Ammendment issues unless it specifically addresses LEOSA conduct.......states that make it illegal to transport firearms loaded in cars would now be saying, "Oh yeah Officer Friendly lock me up I have a gun." Before I had a permit and was carrying under LEOSA, I got pulled over. The gun was in the glove box next to my vehicle registration. I told the officer I had a firearm in the glove box before I put my hand in there to retrieve it and he asked why, " I told him I was retired and was carried the gun under LEOSA. We spent the next five minutes telling each other war stories.
I submit that these claims are just as valid as any other internet claim where people don't actually know each other--such as yours and mine.
When you read this one, remember, there is no duty to inform in GA and there never has been. That's a factor in the Glynn County video, too.
I recently got pulled over for speeding (52 in a 35mph zone) in Dunwoody, GA. The officer asked that I provide my driver's license after giving me a sermon for the reason he was pulling me over. Anyway, upon pulling out my DL out of my wallet he noticed that I had a concealed weapons permit (which I keep behind my license in the see-through pocket of my wallet).
He then asked me if I had a gun in the car which I said yes. He asked if it was load which I said yes (stupid question...right?). He then asked where I had it, which I responded in the glove compartment. At this point, he asked that I unlock my passenger side door and put my hands on the steering wheel. He walked around the back of my car, opened the passenger side door, and retrieved my gun (in a holster).
When he came back to my car with citation in hand, he then gave me yet another sermon...suggesting that I volunteer this information next time. Meaning, that I tell him or any other officer that I have a weapon in the car should I ever get pulled over again. He handed me the citation, my weapon, and then the ammo.
Here's my confusion...was this guy paranoid or am I being super sensitive? He was professional at all times; therefore, I'm not complaining on that front. However, I've been a concealed weapon holder for over 22 years now and I've NEVER had any police officer ask me if I had a weapon in the car when getting pulled over for a moving violation. I told the offer that I disagreed with him. I told him that I was not a felon, that I was not committing a felony, and that I was not reaching for the glove compartment when producing what he asked for which was my driver's license. I would agree with this officer's suggestion should I have been attempting to reach for my wallet and the wallet would have beem in the glove compartment. That was not the case here. I produced my license by reaching into my pocket.
When you read this one, remember, there is no duty to inform in GA and there never has been. That's a factor in the Glynn County video, too.
I recently got pulled over for speeding (52 in a 35mph zone) in Dunwoody, GA. The officer asked that I provide my driver's license after giving me a sermon for the reason he was pulling me over. Anyway, upon pulling out my DL out of my wallet he noticed that I had a concealed weapons permit (which I keep behind my license in the see-through pocket of my wallet).
He then asked me if I had a gun in the car which I said yes. He asked if it was load which I said yes (stupid question...right?). He then asked where I had it, which I responded in the glove compartment. At this point, he asked that I unlock my passenger side door and put my hands on the steering wheel. He walked around the back of my car, opened the passenger side door, and retrieved my gun (in a holster).
When he came back to my car with citation in hand, he then gave me yet another sermon...suggesting that I volunteer this information next time. Meaning, that I tell him or any other officer that I have a weapon in the car should I ever get pulled over again. He handed me the citation, my weapon, and then the ammo.
Here's my confusion...was this guy paranoid or am I being super sensitive? He was professional at all times; therefore, I'm not complaining on that front. However, I've been a concealed weapon holder for over 22 years now and I've NEVER had any police officer ask me if I had a weapon in the car when getting pulled over for a moving violation. I told the offer that I disagreed with him. I told him that I was not a felon, that I was not committing a felony, and that I was not reaching for the glove compartment when producing what he asked for which was my driver's license. I would agree with this officer's suggestion should I have been attempting to reach for my wallet and the wallet would have beem in the glove compartment. That was not the case here. I produced my license by reaching into my pocket.
jtpur
Member
Ohio?????????
Here is another one: of course, some people will surely dismiss them all as internet rumor.
Tonight I was driving my car down Chastain Lakes Rd in Kennesaw at 1am. I just drove past the wal-mart when I see another car approaching. I am going slightly above the speed limit, but I haven't seen a car since I exited 575. As I passed the car I realized it was Cobb Co. PD and I decreased my speed slightly to speed limit. I watched my mirrors and saw him loop around. He sped up on me and I put on my signal before his lights even went on. Sure enough BLUE LIGHTS. Since I work in Buckhead, handle large sums of money and leave at 1am, I carry my main, and a back-up because you never know.
He approaches my car and the dialog begins
Cop 1: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: Please tell me, but my guess is speeding.
C1: Do you know the speed limit on Chastain Rd?(We were on Chastain Lakes...)
Me:45
C1: I clocked you going 68.
Me: Really? I'm sure I wasn't going that fast.
C1: I need your license.
Me: Sure thing.(I hand him my license and GFL)
C1: Do you have a gun?
Me: I have 2, one on my hip. Backup on my ankle.(My hands have not left my steering wheel except to give him my license. He runs my permit, comes back valid)
C1: Why do you have 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C1: Ok, keep your hands visible, I'm going to ask you to step out of the car.
Me: ok(I wait for him to open the door)
C1: how do you open your door?
Me: Pull the handle...
C1: Ok put you hands on your head and face away from me.(At this point his gun is drawn and pointed at my head). Put you hands behind your back, if you move you will have a bullet in you.(I really don't know what to do. I wait for him to grab my hands because I really don't want to get shot.)
He disarms me and I hear sirens approaching.
Me: Don't tell me those sirens are for me.
C1: They are.
Me
on't you think that's a little much. My guns are already in the grass, and I'm handcuffed.
C1: I have 1 gun, you had 2. I'm just trying to go home tonight.
Me: Understandable, but I'm already disarmed.
C2: Why do you have all these guns?
Me: I work in Buckhead, late at night.
C2: So, why do you need a gun.
Me: Have you ever been to buckhead at night? There are break-ins, violence... I want to stay alive.
C2: Why do you need 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C3: I get it, thank you.
C2: Have you ever been a cop?
Me:No
C2: Have you ever worked security?
Me: Yes
C2: So you were a security guard.
Me: No, but I work security at my restaurant, I am the line. I do everything, security is just one part of my job.
C2: So you haven't worked security.
Me: If you are asking if I have worn a shirt that says Security, my answer is no. If you are asking if I have worked security, without a shirt, my answer is yes.
C2: You don't know anything. Have you ever security in your job description?
Me: Yes. Security is in my job description, just like ordering food, and writing the schedule. I do everything.
C2: Cops get shot by permit holders everyday.
Me:**Shaking my head, and turning my head away from him and to the ground. I don't answer his questions anymore.**
C1: Can I search your bag?
Me: I think it is unnecessary, but if it will let me leave earlier then yes.
C1: So, is that a yes?
Me: Yes
C1: What's this?(20 ft away, in the dark)
Me: I have no idea, my vision is not that good.
C1: It says Amphetamines.
Me: That is my prescription, for ADHD, with my name on the bottle.
C3: Ok. Got it. I like what you are doing. I get it.
Me: Thanks, this is ridiculous.
C3: I know, we are almost done.
Me: Thank you.
C1: Ok, I'm going to put your firearms in the trunk and the ammo in the front seat. Get to where you are going. If you stop to get your guns out of your trunk, you will be pulled over again and arrested. I'm going to let you off with a verbal warning. Drive safe.
My thoughts:
1) I showed him my valid permit without asking. I don't have to declare, yet I did.
2) I understand safety, but once I'm disarmed, was everything else necessary?
3) He searched my car without asking. He only asked about my bag.
4) I had a gun pointed at my face for following the law, and being honest with the officer.
5) Not once was I a threat. I was calm, never quick movements.
6) How many times were my rights violated tonight? My count is 4.
7) I want to thank the third cop for not being a complete douche. The other 2, not so much.
8) I have no idea any of their badge numbers, names, or anything else. I just wanted to go to bed.
Questions:
Should I file a complaint with cobb county?
Am I unreasonable in thinking this was ridiculous?
Why does the second cop have a badge and a gun? He was a complete moron. I don't feel safe with him protecting me.
Thank you all for letting me vent. This was insane.
Tonight I was driving my car down Chastain Lakes Rd in Kennesaw at 1am. I just drove past the wal-mart when I see another car approaching. I am going slightly above the speed limit, but I haven't seen a car since I exited 575. As I passed the car I realized it was Cobb Co. PD and I decreased my speed slightly to speed limit. I watched my mirrors and saw him loop around. He sped up on me and I put on my signal before his lights even went on. Sure enough BLUE LIGHTS. Since I work in Buckhead, handle large sums of money and leave at 1am, I carry my main, and a back-up because you never know.
He approaches my car and the dialog begins
Cop 1: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: Please tell me, but my guess is speeding.
C1: Do you know the speed limit on Chastain Rd?(We were on Chastain Lakes...)
Me:45
C1: I clocked you going 68.
Me: Really? I'm sure I wasn't going that fast.
C1: I need your license.
Me: Sure thing.(I hand him my license and GFL)
C1: Do you have a gun?
Me: I have 2, one on my hip. Backup on my ankle.(My hands have not left my steering wheel except to give him my license. He runs my permit, comes back valid)
C1: Why do you have 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C1: Ok, keep your hands visible, I'm going to ask you to step out of the car.
Me: ok(I wait for him to open the door)
C1: how do you open your door?
Me: Pull the handle...
C1: Ok put you hands on your head and face away from me.(At this point his gun is drawn and pointed at my head). Put you hands behind your back, if you move you will have a bullet in you.(I really don't know what to do. I wait for him to grab my hands because I really don't want to get shot.)
He disarms me and I hear sirens approaching.
Me: Don't tell me those sirens are for me.
C1: They are.
Me
on't you think that's a little much. My guns are already in the grass, and I'm handcuffed.C1: I have 1 gun, you had 2. I'm just trying to go home tonight.
Me: Understandable, but I'm already disarmed.
C2: Why do you have all these guns?
Me: I work in Buckhead, late at night.
C2: So, why do you need a gun.
Me: Have you ever been to buckhead at night? There are break-ins, violence... I want to stay alive.
C2: Why do you need 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C3: I get it, thank you.
C2: Have you ever been a cop?
Me:No
C2: Have you ever worked security?
Me: Yes
C2: So you were a security guard.
Me: No, but I work security at my restaurant, I am the line. I do everything, security is just one part of my job.
C2: So you haven't worked security.
Me: If you are asking if I have worn a shirt that says Security, my answer is no. If you are asking if I have worked security, without a shirt, my answer is yes.
C2: You don't know anything. Have you ever security in your job description?
Me: Yes. Security is in my job description, just like ordering food, and writing the schedule. I do everything.
C2: Cops get shot by permit holders everyday.
Me:**Shaking my head, and turning my head away from him and to the ground. I don't answer his questions anymore.**
C1: Can I search your bag?
Me: I think it is unnecessary, but if it will let me leave earlier then yes.
C1: So, is that a yes?
Me: Yes
C1: What's this?(20 ft away, in the dark)
Me: I have no idea, my vision is not that good.
C1: It says Amphetamines.
Me: That is my prescription, for ADHD, with my name on the bottle.
C3: Ok. Got it. I like what you are doing. I get it.
Me: Thanks, this is ridiculous.
C3: I know, we are almost done.
Me: Thank you.
C1: Ok, I'm going to put your firearms in the trunk and the ammo in the front seat. Get to where you are going. If you stop to get your guns out of your trunk, you will be pulled over again and arrested. I'm going to let you off with a verbal warning. Drive safe.
My thoughts:
1) I showed him my valid permit without asking. I don't have to declare, yet I did.
2) I understand safety, but once I'm disarmed, was everything else necessary?
3) He searched my car without asking. He only asked about my bag.
4) I had a gun pointed at my face for following the law, and being honest with the officer.
5) Not once was I a threat. I was calm, never quick movements.
6) How many times were my rights violated tonight? My count is 4.
7) I want to thank the third cop for not being a complete douche. The other 2, not so much.
8) I have no idea any of their badge numbers, names, or anything else. I just wanted to go to bed.
Questions:
Should I file a complaint with cobb county?
Am I unreasonable in thinking this was ridiculous?
Why does the second cop have a badge and a gun? He was a complete moron. I don't feel safe with him protecting me.
Thank you all for letting me vent. This was insane.
traffic stop CWP
did you hear about the guy who gets pulled over for speeding. the officer asks for his DL, registration and insurance card....the driver hands him all three plus his CWP.....seeing the CWP the officer asks him if he has a firearm , the driver says yes, I have a S&W revolver on my waist, a semi auto on my ankle, a Walther under the seat.... a Glock in the glove compartment, two shotguns and a rifle in the trunk.....the officer steps back and asks..."geez buddy, what are you afraid of ?"
the driver replies.....
"absolutely nothing"
did you hear about the guy who gets pulled over for speeding. the officer asks for his DL, registration and insurance card....the driver hands him all three plus his CWP.....seeing the CWP the officer asks him if he has a firearm , the driver says yes, I have a S&W revolver on my waist, a semi auto on my ankle, a Walther under the seat.... a Glock in the glove compartment, two shotguns and a rifle in the trunk.....the officer steps back and asks..."geez buddy, what are you afraid of ?"
the driver replies.....
"absolutely nothing"
OIF2
Member
OK, "REDLEVEL", like I said, let the bashing begin...I'm sorry; it all my fault. I'm here for you though; vent on, if it makes you feel better to flame on a retired copper. Again, I'll ask for you to give us a solution here. Haven't heard one yet. I don't see what the cops did wrong on the long-winded Chastain Lakes encounter...the cop's perception was that something was wrong, so he called for another unit. Again, he didn't know you (I'm assuming it was you), and didn't know you were a "good guy". CCWs mean absolutely nothing when conducting a stop; YOU know you're OK; the cop doesn't. I can't peer into the thinking of the policeman who stopped you; only he knows what bothered him. There's no "right way" to handle this. Sounds like you were on your way, with your gun, and you were treated (in your own words) "professionally". Feel better? Probably not. Stop by for a hug sometime if you need to.
Bob
Bob
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cmort666
Member
So then similarly, wouldn't it follow that badges mean absolutely nothing when you're BEING stopped?
When I'm stopped by a cop, I may or may not have ANY idea why. I certainly have NO idea IN THE WORLD who he is, or what his record is. If the cop shouldn't trust somebody who's passed a background investigation to get a CHL, there's certainly no reason for me to trust a cop who's passed a background examination to get a badge. He could be a good guy or he could be Justin Volpe. Therefore, I shouldn't talk to him in any way not specifically mandated by law, right? And consenting to any search would be utterly out of the question, right?
Every argument that you can make for why a cop shouldn't trust a citizen with a CHL during a stop is 100% equally applicable to why a citizen with a CHL shouldn't trust a cop during a stop.
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
This is getting a little heavy...think some humor is in order. Posted this in another Thread, but in case you haven't seen it:
Mental Stimulation: Laugh of The day- I am sorry officer
Mental Stimulation: Laugh of The day- I am sorry officer
OIF2
Member
Amazing...OK, here's the difference. You play silly with the police, you pay the price. Maybe a ticket, maybe jail. Depends. No cop-bashing here? I beg to differ. You don't have to trust the cop that stops you, but you'd better do what he says. Here's another thought...driving a car and a CCW are a privilege, to be taken seriously. They're not an absolute right. Do something foolish and see how fast both are revoked. Since no one here can come up with a solution besides giving anecdotal reasons why cops are evil and stupid (I know, I know, some of your best friends are cops...), I'll give you a solution to ALL the issues here.
1. Drive safely and stay within the speed limit. You won't get stopped.
2. Don't drink and drive (at least, while CCW)
3. Don't be trolling for whores or dope while CCW (like the goofball in the other thread).
4. If stopped, be polite and follow instructions. If you don't want to tell the cop you have a gun, don't. There may be a price to pay, though.
5. If you're not satisfied with your treatment, complain to the Agency involved, not the Internet. If the cop screwed up you'll probably get some satisfaction.
6. Stop whining. If it didn't happen to you, so what? The facts of what REALLY transpired may be different than "what you heard". Go about your life, carry your weapon responsibly and think about the next one you're going buy. My thoughts. Bring it on.
Bob
PS Badges DON'T mean anything. I always asked for ID. And yes, I've arrested more than one cop in my time. Never wrote a cite to one, though.
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cmort666
Member
Flat out untrue.
Police stop people for a variety of reasons, some of them HIGHLY illegal, such as race and ethnicity.
I was stopped once while a friend's wife was driving me to the Amtrak station in the middle of the night. He said she was "weaving". It was a LIE. He was trolling for drunks, or who knows what.
I was "trolling" for the Lakeshore Limited.
If the law doesn't REQUIRE me to notify, there'd better NOT be.
The kind of "satisfaction" that the family of Michael Pleasance got?
Or the kind that the family of Kathryn Johnston got?
Or the kind that the family of Ronald Madison got?
Stop "whining" about "officer safety". If you can't feel "safe" without breaking the law, change careers.
I wasn't shot along with the three cops who were murdered in that cafe in Washington. Should my reaction be, "It didn't happen to me, so what?"
OIF2
Member
cmort666, your post says it all. Nothing I say will change your views. Obviously, you have a problem with cops. No sweat, most everyone I dealt with did. As far as the career change goes, I did. Retired and went back in the Army. Prepping for my 3rd combat tour. Hope you come to grips with your anger issues.
Bob
Bob
That argument goes the other way as well. How come so many police have a problem with civilians?
The % of "cop haters" is very low. Most of those portrayed as "cop haters" are police abuse haters, pro-Constitution, and pro-Rights.
cmort666
Member
I think your comment, "It didn't happen to you, so what?" pretty much sums things up. That doesn't really strike me as a productive attitude in a cop.
I certainly have a problem with psychopaths like Officer Harless. Apparently you do not.
I feel compelled to note:
- You did not in ANY way respond to my FACTUAL points.
- You responded instead with ad hominems.
- It wasn't ME screaming obscene death threats in the middle of a city street like Dennis Hopper in "Blue Velvet". Yet, you think that it's ME and not Officer Harless who needs to deal with "anger issues".
OP
Wow, I'm sure glad I live where I do. The cops respect us, and we respect the cops. I've been living in my present location for 16 years, belong to a gun club with over 500 members who all live within a 20 mile radius. I've NEVER heard of one time when there's been any sort of confrontation between any of them and the cops. That sort of thing would spread like wildfire.
In fact, the police chief, along with every local politician, comes to the local Friends of the NRA dinner every year.
I leave my house and the thought of getting hassled by the cops is nonexistant.
I stay out of NYC as much as possible, life outside the city is a whole nuther world. YMMV
In fact, the police chief, along with every local politician, comes to the local Friends of the NRA dinner every year.
I leave my house and the thought of getting hassled by the cops is nonexistant.
I stay out of NYC as much as possible, life outside the city is a whole nuther world. YMMV
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cmort666
Member
Isolated incidents can happen anywhere.
What's a cause for concern is a pattern of misbehavior. Those sorts of things tend to occur in clusters, usually in cities and towns with a long history of inadequate or corrupt supervision, and public apathy toward it.
This kind of thing would be very unexpected in Olmsted Township, Ohio. I doubt ANYBODY would be surprised if it (or worse) happened in New Orleans.
You have the kind of police that you demand.
Demand professionalism and that's what you'll get.
Demand nothing, and you'll likely get whatever the lowest common denominator thinks it can get away with. And that can run the gamut from "rudeness" to contract murder.
You mean when they disarmed a legally armed citizen, separated his ammo from his guns, and told him if he stopped to load his weapons they would take him to jail?
That tells me a lot.
cmort666
Member
I would consider it troubling for somebody with no duty to protect anyone as an individual, forcibly (and unlawfully) preventing someone from being able to defend himself.
I guess the response would be, "It didn't happen to you, who cares?"
OIF2
Member
Like I said guys, nothing I say here will make any difference. Screaming at me about corruption and other improper stuff, done by cops from other jurisdictions, seems kind of silly...hence, my "so what?" response. I can't do anything about it. Not my area, and I'm retired. I don't really care. I worked hard, put bad guys in jail, got hurt a couple of times and retired honorably. I tried to convey what a cop thinks like. No one wants to hear it. The thread is about "duty to inform" and you're all screaming about murder in Atlanta or New Orleans. Talk about thread drift. Cop bashing? Not here? Hmm...I advised, in a few easy steps, how to stay out of trouble. I was told it didn't matter, cops will lie and stop people for racial and ethnic stuff. I never saw it in my career. Don't really care if you buy it or not. We were too busy (like most cops) doing our job.
I noted SEVERAL times that the Ohio cop was out of line and would pay a price. Sounds like you want him shot at dawn, for yelling and cursing at someone. Fair play and democracy at work, I guess. Nope, no cop-bashing here. And I did reply to your "factual" points...several times. Not going to anymore. I won't be responding again...I have to get some work done, and it's getting silly here, anyway. Last question: what the HELL does a stupid movie with a doper like Dennis Weaver have to do with a "duty to inform" thread? Very factual, I guess. Wow.
Bob
I noted SEVERAL times that the Ohio cop was out of line and would pay a price. Sounds like you want him shot at dawn, for yelling and cursing at someone. Fair play and democracy at work, I guess. Nope, no cop-bashing here. And I did reply to your "factual" points...several times. Not going to anymore. I won't be responding again...I have to get some work done, and it's getting silly here, anyway. Last question: what the HELL does a stupid movie with a doper like Dennis Weaver have to do with a "duty to inform" thread? Very factual, I guess. Wow.
Bob
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