Duty to inform?

[OIF2]

What about carrying per LEOSA, I feel like a jerk producing my retired ID. In years past I carrried a pistol in the glove compartment, when asked or the registration I then informed the officer that I have a gun in the glove compartment with the registration. Twice this has happened, twice they asked for a permit and I produced my retired Id card. Twice I didn't get a ticket I deserved. That isnt right, I don't mind telling the officer I have a gun, but I don't want any special treatment.

Why do you feel like a jerk? I always wanted to know who I was talking to after stopping someone when I worked patrol. My Dept also REQUIRES Officers to ID themselves to another agency when stopped. Common sense. If the copper respects your retired status enough to cut you a break, enjoy it. You've earned it; that how most coppers I know feel about retired guys. You COULD have demanded a supervisor and a cite if it bothered you that much.
Bob

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.

 

[27145]

In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.

Not cool at all.

 

[Noah Vaile]

Add North Carolina to the list of states that DO require notification.

If you are an armed criminal, however, you are NOT required to notify.

 

[hatt]

In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.

This is a common outcome of informing. A friend of mine has a similar story. I don't know why people continue to recommend the practice where it isn't required by bad law. But people also don't think you should be quiet when a officer starts questioning you about a crime you may or may not have committed. People just like to give bad advice.

 

[cshoff]

In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.

I have a friend who had his 1911 seized on the side of the road after he voluntarily informed. The LEO, who had obviously never handled a cocked and locked 1911 before, muzzled himself, my friend, and numerous passing motorists as he fumbled around trying to figure out how to "make the gun safe". Finally, after my friend more or less got rude with him for handling the gun so unsafe, the officer allowed my friend to walk him through the unloading procedure, step by step.

I'm not sure how ANYONE could think that a loaded gun is somehow more safe being handled on the side of the road, than it is left in it's holster.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I have a friend who had his 1911 seized on the side of the road after he voluntarily informed. The LEO, who had obviously never handled a cocked and locked 1911 before, muzzled himself, my friend, and numerous passing motorists as he fumbled around trying to figure out how to "make the gun safe". Finally, after my friend more or less got rude with him for handling the gun so unsafe, the officer allowed my friend to walk him through the unloading procedure, step by step.

I'm not sure how ANYONE could think that a loaded gun is somehow more safe being handled on the side of the road, than it is left in it's holster.

I think that's a valid point. There was a vid in the Lounge of a LEO in Oceanside trying to figure out how to check a pistol to see if it is loaded while the muzzle is pointing at passing auto traffic.

 

[Gary Slider]

Murdock, You say the map is wrong and then you say in ME you don't have to inform but a state trooper said you should. Would you please point out what on my map is wrong. Thank you and Stay Safe,

 

[jtpur]

I don't know each state's requirements. I could find out by going to the State website and reading their law., or I could be safe, hand the Officer my D.L. and my CHL at the same time, and tell him I was armed. That would eliminate any breaking of any law. As a retired cop, I always appreciated citizens who told me they were armed. That told me that they posed no threat to me, in 99.9% of the times they told me. I dont mind telling any cop I come into contact with when the contact is official. If we just are chatting and saying"hello, nice day, its hot today," I do not tell them I am armed. its not an official contact.

 

[OIF2]

This is a common outcome of informing. A friend of mine has a similar story. I don't know why people continue to recommend the practice where it isn't required by bad law. But people also don't think you should be quiet when a officer starts questioning you about a crime you may or may not have committed. People just like to give bad advice.

Common? Sounds like an opinion. How "common" is it?
Bob

 

[Aubie]

Add Alabama to the inform list. Have to tell when stopped by police of trooper. Just hand permit over with DL and insurance card, keep hands where they can see. At night turn on interior light.

Oh, hide cooler before they see it. Officer got more upset about my water cooler that gun. Had to search vehicle only to find 2 bottles of cold water inside cooler. Gave him one before he left. Next time I'll have it open.

 

[hatt]

Common? Sounds like an opinion. How "common" is it?
Bob

When it happens to people you personally know, then you go on the internet and a bunch of people state that it's happened to them, and then the LEOs comes on and tell that that's what they do; however common that is, it's that common.

It's not common in my case because me getting pulled over is uncommon, like 14 years ago. And second, you won't hear me blurting out "I got a gun" while the officer is approaching.

 

[OIF2]

"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob

 

[hatt]

"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob

Yeah, I guess if you discount everyone's stories. It never happens. Carry on. I guess you're from the "if I didn't see it with my own eyes it didn't happen" crowd.

 

[redlevel]

"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob

Are you trying to claim it doesn't happen?
How many times constitutes "too many"?
Do you have your head in the sand?

There are plenty of documented cases.

 

[OIF2]

"Documented"...let's have a few. It's "common"...must be HUNDREDS of cops treating CCW citizens awfully. Can't keep up with all of them. I just read a thread here regarding a citizen and his wife being treated with respect (in Ohio) twice. And there's a YouTube video of a policeman treating ANOTHER citizen well in CA...I guess that would be considered "common", too. Head in the sand? I doubt it; I was a cop for 24 years; I saw disrespect and respectful treatment, depending on the person being talked to. Anecdotal stories mean nothing; I would imagine that there were good reasons why citizens were treated rudely by cops. If not, the internal affairs people will deal with it if there's something amiss. That's my experience. Most departments (especially the big ones) are eager now to take complaints against their officers. That's reality, not "common" because someone on the internet said so. What I see here (on this thread) is a good bit of cop-bashing. I realize most people don't like the police; I was told in the Academy that if I wanted to be loved, join the fire dept. This is a good place to get in the anti-police sentment; very safe hiding behind the computer screen. Another forum engaged in this and several threads were locked because the anti-police, black helicopter crowd came out of the woodwork. It'll probably happen here, too. Too bad; this is a GREAT forum. The people I see here bashing cops aren't seen too much commenting on revolvers or S&W autos; I wonder why? My only comment now is that I worked 24 years as a cop; I don't appreciate the uninformed and frankly, stupid comments from people who haven't been there or done that. I saw LOTS of folks shot, beaten and otherwise rudely treated in 24 years, most all of them deserved it. Some, that didn't, made complaints and sometimes got satisfaction. That's the system; deal with it. Have YOU been treated incorrectly in a traffic stop or police contact when you informed the Officer? Let's hear it. We'll all comment and dispense advice. Otherwise, it's anecdotal and a non-issue.
Bob

 

[cmort666]

I would imagine that there were good reasons why citizens were treated rudely by cops. If not, the internal affairs people will deal with it if there's something amiss. That's my experience. Most departments (especially the big ones) are eager now to take complaints against their officers.

Sorry, that's just as unsupportable as "ALL cops are bad and are NEVER punished for it."

I can rattle off example after example of police who not only "disrespected" citizens, but committed serious crimes, up to and including murder, and were either never punished, were punished in no meaningful way, or were ONLY punished when the media got hold of the story (especially video) and the coverup collapsed under its own weight.

Can you tell me what "internal affairs" did in the following cases?

Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta
"SOS" home invasion ring in Chicago
Danziger bridge (and other) murders in New Orleans

Bad cops [naturally] tend to gravitate toward places where they're ALLOWED to be bad. Strangely, in those sorts of places, "internal affairs", to paraphrase Richard M. Daley, have a tendency to not "see nuttin'".

If we had to rely upon the Atlanta PD "internal affairs" for the TRUTH, people would still be running around claiming that Kathryn Johnston was a "drug dealer" and that she "shot some cops"... of course I'm sure that there ARE still people running around saying that... and some of them, even though they KNOW the truth.

 

[redlevel]

You do have your head in the sand.

I am not a cop basher, and I defy you to point out where I have done so. I have posted accounts of good encounters with officers that involve my family.

I could post a news account for every day of the week that documented police misconduct of some kind. I don't do that, because I think that about 90% of officers are dedicated individuals who try to do a good job within the bounds of policy and the law.

I was a public school teacher for 24 years. There has been no more maligned group then ps teachers over the last ten or 15 years. I believe that the percentage of good teachers to bad is about the same as good cops to bad. I don't deny, though, that there are some rotten individuals that have no business in the profession.

You, Sir, are way off base. Check my posts if you think I don't take part in the other discussions here. Don't dismiss what has been a pretty civil discussion to this point as "cop bashing," because I have not seen that intent.

 

[OIF2]

...still waiting for all those "documented" cases...I thought we were talking about being subjected to rudeness regarding CCW permits. Don't know about the other stuff you mentioned, but the cops in New Orleans are being tried for murder.
You're right about good vs bad in each vocation. I've run into some pretty stupid teachers, as well as some really bad cops. Got a solution? As far as "cop-bashing", the comment on "head in the sand" will do...I gave you my empirical data, Teach. It was the same as yours- no facts, numbers, etc. except what I know from 24 years as a cop. Colored by tunnel vision, prejudice and job bias, like yours. Discussions are ALWAYS civil until something you don't like is mentioned by someone you disagree with. Fire away, though; I've been shot at before (don't think he had a CCW). Lighten up; I'd still buy you a Coke after a range session. I'm retired now anyway; haven't beaten up some poor citizen on his way to church in awhile.
Bob

 

[redlevel]

For starters, go to youtube and search "Glynn County police pulls gun for no reason." The mods probably won't allow a direct link because of the language the officers use when abusing the legal ccw citizen. One of them also uses a fine "gangsta" hold to point his weapon at the driver as he tells him "get out of the truck or I'll blow your . . . . head off"

There is a website called georgia packing dot org. Go to that site and find the forum for LEO Encounters. There are some good reports (including mine) and some bad reports. Just about all the encounters include facts, dates, times, officers' names, etc, that are easily verified. There is one that was posted last week where the person being hassled for legal OC got his phone's recorder turned on. Pretty interesting stuff.

Maybe you will choose to discount all the bad ones as "internet rumors." That is your right, because anyone can get on the internet behind the screen, so to speak, and claim anything, can't they?

Some guy could even claim to be a retired officer with 24 years, couldn't he? I choose to accept you at your word, though.