Early Bekearts - What is (and isn't) Known

[Masterpiece]

I asked David at Woodlawn Boys if the box was serial numbered to the gun but unfortunately the serial number was not clear so was possibly added at a later date.

PS: I did a quick unofficial count and around 38 guns shipped on 6/16/1911 to other dealers so the 35th assembled could very well have been the 35th shipped but since it was in a group of 30+ guns, who knows for sure.

James,

Given the Box that accompanied the Serial No. 138226 Revolver in the Auction was stamped with the Grip No. of one not even being in the 1st Production Run...It most likely belonged to one of the .22/32 Heavy-Frames shipped to Bekeart at a later time!! Given that...It most definitely was not the Box that 138226 shipped in to Von Lengerke & Detmold on June 16th.,1911!!

As an aside...I do agree with your thoughts regarding the possibility 138226 was not only the 35th assembled...As well as the 35th shipped!! It's also very plausible to believe it very well may even have been in Inventory when the 30 were pulled for the 1st Order that shipped to Bekeart...Just wasn't one of those pulled to have been included in that 1st Shipment...Just my thoughts!!

 

[JSR III]

Given the Box that accompanied the Serial No. 138226 Revolver in the Auction was stamped with the Grip No. of one not even being in the 1st Production Run.

How do you know this? Did you see a serial number on the box? Are you the buyer and now in possession of the box? I'm missing something here.

 

[Masterpiece]

How do you know this? Did you see a serial number on the box?

James,

The No. I'm referring to is "Not" the Serial No., It's the Stock No. of the Revolver that shipped in that Box!! If you look closely at the Photo of the Box Label...In the Lower Left-Hand Corner...Although somewhat faded...You'll find the Ink-Stamped No. 1512 I referred to which is not one of those produced in the 1st Production Run!!

And by the way...No I'm not the Bidder that won the Auction!!

 

[JSR III]

OK, I went back and looked at the photo and see the "1512" that you are referring to. I had not seen that marking before on any of the boxes but then again, I have not seen many Bekeart labeled boxes close up. You may be correct that S&W marked the end label with the stock sequence number (my term) which for 138226 appears to be 35.

According to my database, if you are correct, 1512 would have shipped in 1912 and be in the 163,XXX serial number block. There are a few guns shipped to Bekeart during that time frame so who knows.

Jim Fisher has a Bekeart ad flyer that speaks about Bekeart receiving a second thousand .22/32 HFT's to be exclusively sold by him. That second 1,000 run would have been in the 163,XXX range so who knows. Since he did not exclusively market the first 1,000, as the records have shown, one has to wonder why he would brag so about the second 1,000 unless it was merely an attempt to increase sales.

As an aside, there is a lot made about Bekeart and this model and yet M.W. Robinson ordered and received 490 guns in the first few months of 1914 that were consecutively serial numbered between 207,926 and 208,416. This order alone is almost 200 guns more than the 294 taken by Bekeart in 1911 and yet we see fewer of the Robinson guns than the Bekeart ones. Perhaps most went to Europe as Robinson sold a lot overseas?????

This is the first time that I have been made aware of the end label marking so I will be looking for it in the future. Good pick up.

 

[JSR III]

So, with this possible new information coming to light, (thanks to Masterpiece), do any of the forum members have examples of the so called "Bekeart boxes" with an intact end label that they could post photos of?

We are trying to determine if the stock sequence numbers found imprinted on the left stock bottom also appear on the box end label. This certainly seems to be a plausible scenario so now we just have to see if we can verify it.


PS: I asked Roy if he had ever seen or heard about the stock sequence number being stamped on the box end label and he stated that he had not. The mystery continues.

 

[Masterpiece]

We are trying to determine if the stock sequence numbers found imprinted on the left stock bottom also appear on the box end label. This certainly seems to be a plausible scenario so now we just have to see if we can verify it.


PS: I asked Roy if he had ever seen or heard about the stock sequence number being stamped on the box end label and he stated that he had not. The mystery continues.

James,

To pass along the way I came to find that to be is this...Back in the Mid-Late 80's I was offered a chance to acquire a Fairly High Condition Completely Matching (Both by Stock No. & Serial No.) Boxed & "Lettered" Bekeart-Shipped one with an Ink-Stamped Stock No. Label somewhat close to the one I noted...About a Hundred or so lower if memory serves!! Although sorry to say at that time...In My Opinion...The price was "Waaay" out there so I never pursued it any further!!

I have no idea where that Revolver may be today...Although in hindsight...Given how much more valuable & desirable these have become since that time...Guess maybe I should have tried to work out a "Payment Plan"...Ha!!~Ha!!

Those are the only Two I've ever easily noted as having them...And as you've already made mention...Not having seen very many Bekeart-Labeled Boxes myself either for comparison...To have any idea when this practice may have started or if they were always so marked & faded away much like this one looks to be...Or possibly even originally numbered in Pencil & were worn away in short order!! As you stated..The mystery continues...Be very interesting to see if any others are found having it!!

 

[WRA.22's]

Want to add a likely previously unknown piece to all you Bekeart data collectors databases. I currently own (have for 30+/- years and my Dad got it back in the mid/late 50's) serial# 138708, grip #494. It has been lettered by Mr. Jinks. It is in excellent (97%+/-) condition.
I can furnish additional info and photos as/if needed, just email me.
I would greatly appreciate any/all info about my Bekeart that you may be able to provide thru all your expertise.
Hope this is new and helps, and thx.

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you, that's one I didn't have in my database.

The stock # puts it in the 2nd most desirable class, the remainder of the guns in the 1st production run of 1044 and serial range that went to other dealers, not Beheart; #295 thru #1044.

The shipping date would be of interest to all.

 

[imbaroque]

Bekeart Revolver

I have S/N 138271 with all matching numbers on the cylinder and barrel. Grip #75 with very light pencil on the inside of the grip. Gun is probably 80-85% and functions quite smoothly.

 

[Goony]

I have S/N 138271 with all matching numbers on the cylinder and barrel. Grip #75 with very light pencil on the inside of the grip. Gun is probably 80-85% and functions quite smoothly.

First off, welcome, and thank you for the datapoint associating a grip number with a serial number.. 138271 was not among those actually shipped to Philip Bekeart (although 138272 was). You may need to obtain a letter to determine to whom it did go, although I shouldn't be surprised if JSR III has that info. Regardless, we'd certainly like to see a photo or two of your example.

 

[dpast32]

TITLE: Early Bekearts - What is (and isn't) Known ?

Hello Folks, I just happened to reading the latest Post here in reference to the early production S&W Bekearts, & it reminded me that I never did reply & tender my little piece of the puzzle to this equation. So, for what it's worth, my particular Bekeart Model, Serial # 2213XX DOES NOT EXHIBIT ANY PENCIL NUMBERING BENEATH THE GRIPS, ON EITHER SIDE. I also measured the Barrel again as I can't recall if I had ever recorded its actual length. Be advised it measures exactly 6.0" as measured from the Cylinder Face to the extreme end of the Barrel. I very much apologize for my disgustingly belated Reply with this information, but, better late than never, right ?��
Best regards, Dom P. / 'dpast32'


Hello Guys, I too have what I initially though to be one of the Bekeart models. However, after a little research, I now realize that it is not one of the original Bekeart order examples, but one of the later, standard production "22/32 Hand Ejector" models. The serial # is 2213XX, as found on the frontstrap. It has all the usual features of the early production examples, & came with the "Bekeart" style grips. I can't report if the grips are numbered or marked in any way, as I removed them to prevent any damage. As soon as I'm able to dig them up, I'll report my findings here on the Forum. Pleas stay tuned.

Best, Dom P. / 'dpast32'

 

[JSR III]

138271 shipped in June of 1911 and 138708 shipped in July of 1911. I will add the left stock imprint number to the database. If you could post photos of both sides of the gun I will add the other features as well.

 

[Dino44]

Last week I was in an LGS and saw two interesting guns. One was a 22 LR and the other was a 32 Long. They were both wearing the Bekeart style stocks. The 32 was nice but the 22/32 HFT was very nice. I knew of them but had no significant knowledge of their history. I do not recall if the bottom of the right stock was numbered. I read this entire thread to get enlightened and I am returning to that shop to see if it is still there. May I ask what a fair market value would be for one that is numbered within 294, one 295 - 3000, and not numbered? Please PM if you're not comfortable posting in public.

 

[JSR III]

Wow a lot of good information and a few comments of confusion. I cannot tell you much about 2213XX as I would need the full serial number. For guns in that range I only have one in my database and it is 221382 and although I have details on the gun, I do not have ship date or destination and it was reported to be wearing the 2 screw extension stocks with silver medallions which were not used until later in production so they are replacements.

To clarify, the 1,050 guns produced in 1911 although assigned a stock imprint number in order of their assembly did not ship in that order and the Bekeart shipped guns were not imprinted with 1 through 294.

As an example I have 139262 that shipped to Bekeart in his 10/13/1911 shipment with stock imprint number 1016. So there is no correlation between imprint numbers and serial numbers.

If you have a Bekeart model please post clear photos of both sides and I can add the details like extractor rod knob style, stocks, front sight, condition etc. What I can't see is recessed chambers and sometimes the last patent date so if you can include them that will be great.

Any questions, please fire away. Without these discussions this information will be lost to time.

I do need full serial numbers to record the gun. I do not store any owner information so if I reach out about a gun you have already submitted it is because I don't keep names.