You are correct and have I now changed my mind that they are indeed FF
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Early K 38 Question
- Thread starter Dan M
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You are correct and have I now changed my mind that they are indeed FF
I love this Forum and the knowledge that exist!
Clyde from Carolina
Member
Great piece and photos, great info in a great thread. Love this board!
OIF2
Member
Gotta throw my .02 in- definately Fuzzy Farrant's stocks. Just a wild-ass out-there question...is it by any chance DAO? It would be an old LAPD gun. Most of our old K-38s had narrow triggers and target hammers.
Bob
Bob
OP
No it is both single and double action. I will try and get more info out of the shop owner. He said this one and a model 36 came from an estate.
Dan
Dan
Wayne Dobbs
Member
OIF2,
I don't think that was a duty gun at all. It has none of the wear associated with daily holster carry and car door/wall/steering wheel impacts...
I don't think that was a duty gun at all. It has none of the wear associated with daily holster carry and car door/wall/steering wheel impacts...
OIF2
Member
Roger, Wayne. Probably true, but I saw many LAPD revolvers in almost mint condition that had been carried daily- detectives (yes, LAPD Detectives carried 6" guns), inside people and guys using flap holsters. Depends on the assignment. I was also thinking the hammer had possibly been replaced after retirement (like I did with my M67). Just a thought.
Bob
Bob
I can only speak for K803xx, which was an LAPD gun, belonging to Chief Ed Davis.
It was shipped to the Elysian Park Range, and was one of Chief Davis' carrer revolvers.
It was shipped in Jan of 1950.
It doesn't show much wear - maybe its a 95% gun. The trigger-limiting travel adjustment
had been set such that it was DAO, but the single-action notch was not ground off the
hammer, like was done to another of his guns.
I have another, K92xxx, shipped in Dec 1950, to the dealer in Waco, who did a lot of
business with the Texas Ranger. This gun was carried by a Ranger, and the condition
is about the same as Chief Davis's gun, except for the dinged rear sight blade.
Apparently the gun was dropped on one corner of the blade.
Both have the very early target hammer.
Later, Mike Priwer
It was shipped to the Elysian Park Range, and was one of Chief Davis' carrer revolvers.
It was shipped in Jan of 1950.
It doesn't show much wear - maybe its a 95% gun. The trigger-limiting travel adjustment
had been set such that it was DAO, but the single-action notch was not ground off the
hammer, like was done to another of his guns.
I have another, K92xxx, shipped in Dec 1950, to the dealer in Waco, who did a lot of
business with the Texas Ranger. This gun was carried by a Ranger, and the condition
is about the same as Chief Davis's gun, except for the dinged rear sight blade.
Apparently the gun was dropped on one corner of the blade.
Both have the very early target hammer.
Later, Mike Priwer
OIF2
Member
Hi Mike
Fascinating data on the Ed Davis gun...could you post photos? Elysian Park is the location of the (original) Academy and Davis is one of the legendary Chiefs. 1950 would be early enough in Davis' career that it actually got carried. I worked the Academy for two years as an instructor and inspected hundreds of guns...wear wasn't as bad as one would expect-partly because of the nice year-round weather. As far as the mandated DAO is concerned, it started in '71, I think. Again, fascinating- and pix on both would be nice, if possible.
Bob
Fascinating data on the Ed Davis gun...could you post photos? Elysian Park is the location of the (original) Academy and Davis is one of the legendary Chiefs. 1950 would be early enough in Davis' career that it actually got carried. I worked the Academy for two years as an instructor and inspected hundreds of guns...wear wasn't as bad as one would expect-partly because of the nice year-round weather. As far as the mandated DAO is concerned, it started in '71, I think. Again, fascinating- and pix on both would be nice, if possible.
Bob
Bob
I'm under the impression that, at the time, the Elysian Park Range was either run
by, or extensively used by, the LAPD. Chief Davis got the gun new, from the range.
I think the range was where the LAPD guns were shipped. The letter indicates that
the gun was for the LAPD.
Chief Davis did carry this gun, as well as a 4" from the middle of 1975. This
later one, 6Kxxxxx , was shipped to the LAPD itself, for Chief Davis.
As to pictures, it will have to wait a bit. I don't have a good camera , but
my nephew does, here in Portland. I might be able to get over there next week.
If not, then it will be a month or so.
Interestingly, both of these guns came with custom rosewood grips, that were made
for him by Sgt Walter Shank (sic?) at the range. That name is in a letter Chief
Davis wrote to me, answering questions about the grips and the guns. The earlier
gun has the front corner of the frame cut off, to accomodate the particular style
of custom grip. The 4" gun has a slightly different style of grip, that did not
necessitate cutting the frame.
Regards, Mike Priwer
I'm under the impression that, at the time, the Elysian Park Range was either run
by, or extensively used by, the LAPD. Chief Davis got the gun new, from the range.
I think the range was where the LAPD guns were shipped. The letter indicates that
the gun was for the LAPD.
Chief Davis did carry this gun, as well as a 4" from the middle of 1975. This
later one, 6Kxxxxx , was shipped to the LAPD itself, for Chief Davis.
As to pictures, it will have to wait a bit. I don't have a good camera , but
my nephew does, here in Portland. I might be able to get over there next week.
If not, then it will be a month or so.
Interestingly, both of these guns came with custom rosewood grips, that were made
for him by Sgt Walter Shank (sic?) at the range. That name is in a letter Chief
Davis wrote to me, answering questions about the grips and the guns. The earlier
gun has the front corner of the frame cut off, to accomodate the particular style
of custom grip. The 4" gun has a slightly different style of grip, that did not
necessitate cutting the frame.
Regards, Mike Priwer
OIF2
Member
This is great stuff, Mike. I'll eagerly await pix. The Elysian Park Academy also houses the Los Angeles Police Revolver Club (which actually owns the property) and has a long relationship with S&W. It is the Academy gun store. It was the site of the shooting portion of the 1932 Olympics and then became the Academy range and training facility. So it makes total sense that the gun(s) were shipped there. I'll research the grip maker-only problem, alot of the old coppers are dead. I'll see what I can do. The new Academy and firing ranges are named after Ed Davis, incidentally, and are at the junction of the 405 and the 5 Fwys. Not the same aura as the old Elysian Park facility (now only used for in-service training).
Bob
Bob
Wayne Dobbs
Member
OIF2/Bob,
I always enjoy your LAPD information and knowledge! It makes the great subject of Smith and Wesson even better when you combine it with the golden era of that organization.
Thanks from another old retired street cop.
Wayne
I always enjoy your LAPD information and knowledge! It makes the great subject of Smith and Wesson even better when you combine it with the golden era of that organization.
Thanks from another old retired street cop.
Wayne
OIF2
Member
Thanks, Wayne. I wrote an article for "Guns and Ammo" magazine a few months back ("Guns of the LAPD")and got to see lots of the old photos for research. Fascinating look into the times when LA was a much smaller town. Colt and Smith were about equally represented. Where is Allen, TX?
Bob
Bob
Wayne Dobbs
Member
27 miles north of the cesspool known as Dallas...
LSP 972
Member
If those are indeed Farrant stocks, then John Hurst copied the style down to the last detail.
I have three sets of Hurst grips, made by the man himself for me at the request of Fred Romero.
They all have the plugged escutcheon hole and open back strap; the checkering even looks identical.
However, mine are symmetrical; that right side palm swell is intriguing; and made to order for bullseye shooting.
I have three sets of Hurst grips, made by the man himself for me at the request of Fred Romero.
They all have the plugged escutcheon hole and open back strap; the checkering even looks identical.
However, mine are symmetrical; that right side palm swell is intriguing; and made to order for bullseye shooting.
Oh, ya mean this thread is about football???
"Fuzzy" Farrant 1 sheet catalog dated 1982. What was his real first name anyway? [It was Earl!!]
LAPD pistol team: "Fuzzy"Farrant, Basil Starkey, Emmett Jones and Walter Stark.
The 1961 Cooper book lists Farrant, Hurst and a Stark as grip makers, with Stark predating Farrant's style.
LAPD pistol team: "Fuzzy"Farrant, Basil Starkey, Emmett Jones and Walter Stark.
The 1961 Cooper book lists Farrant, Hurst and a Stark as grip makers, with Stark predating Farrant's style.
Dragnet and Adam-12 nostalgia hangs heavy over those of us of a certain age. I'd love to see the guns of Chief Davis and also those grips.
Jack Harper, "LAPD – All Purpose Firepower", July, 1970 Guns & Ammo.
...Along with standardization of technique has come fairly complete standardization of duty revolvers. Unless an officer has had his 6-inch pistol for over two years, he must soon turn it in on a 4-inch job.
On the other end of the scale, no officer - even plainclothes detectives or those uniformed men who
are off-duty - may carry a 2-inch gun. Generally, this is to insure that an officer
qualifies with, and carries, only one gun.
The 4-inch barrelled revolver is thought to be the best compromise for power, accuracy and concealability. The LAPD Academy has been issuing the 4-inch
S&W Combat Masterpiece for some years now, although there is a choice of
other' Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers on the "approved" list.
Recently, as an experiment leading up to the full changeover to double-action
shooting, one class of the LAPD Academy had all of its revolvers issued
double-action only. The men had some initial difficulty but soon caught up with
the qualification schedule.
Observing qualification on the combat range included watching some 20-year
veterans. This group have only recently been made to continue regular
qualification, and while they swung their 6-inch K-38s and Colt Officers Models
with ease, there were some hits pulled into the shoulders of the silhouettes, on
double action.
On the question of loads, it's hard to avoid the .38 Special Versus Everything
Else controversy. The duty load now recommended by the LAPD range officers is the Remington .38 HighVelocity 158-grain round-nose leadbullet cartridge. In a 4-inch barrel, this load gives the regulation 950 fps thought desirable for urban police use.
Many range officers at the Academy have expressed a preference for a brand of .38
Special ammo that offers a full-weight, round-nose bullet with a higher velocity
and a hollow point. Tests showed, to their satisfaction, that the round is more
effective for police purposes .. Somewhere along the line, the word came
back down, "no dum-dum bullets – bad public relations!"
Jack Harper, "LAPD – All Purpose Firepower", July, 1970 Guns & Ammo.
...Along with standardization of technique has come fairly complete standardization of duty revolvers. Unless an officer has had his 6-inch pistol for over two years, he must soon turn it in on a 4-inch job.
On the other end of the scale, no officer - even plainclothes detectives or those uniformed men who
are off-duty - may carry a 2-inch gun. Generally, this is to insure that an officer
qualifies with, and carries, only one gun.
The 4-inch barrelled revolver is thought to be the best compromise for power, accuracy and concealability. The LAPD Academy has been issuing the 4-inch
S&W Combat Masterpiece for some years now, although there is a choice of
other' Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers on the "approved" list.
Recently, as an experiment leading up to the full changeover to double-action
shooting, one class of the LAPD Academy had all of its revolvers issued
double-action only. The men had some initial difficulty but soon caught up with
the qualification schedule.
Observing qualification on the combat range included watching some 20-year
veterans. This group have only recently been made to continue regular
qualification, and while they swung their 6-inch K-38s and Colt Officers Models
with ease, there were some hits pulled into the shoulders of the silhouettes, on
double action.
On the question of loads, it's hard to avoid the .38 Special Versus Everything
Else controversy. The duty load now recommended by the LAPD range officers is the Remington .38 HighVelocity 158-grain round-nose leadbullet cartridge. In a 4-inch barrel, this load gives the regulation 950 fps thought desirable for urban police use.
Many range officers at the Academy have expressed a preference for a brand of .38
Special ammo that offers a full-weight, round-nose bullet with a higher velocity
and a hollow point. Tests showed, to their satisfaction, that the round is more
effective for police purposes .. Somewhere along the line, the word came
back down, "no dum-dum bullets – bad public relations!"
OIF2
Member
Great reading, SG-688!
OP
Excellent Information thank you for sharing. I am no expert on the grips. I search this website and others through Google. The Pictures that I found showed Durst Marked his panels with a # on the inside of each panel. That is why I concluded these were Fuzzy'z. Here are a couple more pictures. you guys tell me please.
Thanks
Dan
Thanks
Dan
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