Early Triple Lock....price check.UPDATE S&W LETTER...

[Xfuzz]

This came to me today at a local show.
First or second year (41xx) Smith 44 special Triple lock.
7.5 inch barrel with MOP steer head stocks.

Bore, lock-up timing all good.
Your estimate of a ...
Buy price ?
Sell Price ?

Thanks in advance,

 

[T44spl]

Wow, a Triplelock in 7 1/2" barrel even though a 10% finish to only a patina gun that is a breath taking thing. The steer head ruby eye MOP gips is only icing on top of the cake.
The lack of adjustable sights even though a long barrel version may even enhance value as fewer may have been made with fixed sights. No idea of value but quite a find. I and I'm sure many other members here absolutely abhor using the adjective rare or scarce But in this case it may be justified. Well done indeed.

 

[rct269]

I have no experience with items in this condition. I can tell you a first year 7 1/2" Target (#3976, shipped February 23, 1909) in very high 90's condition sold about this time last year for $10,000. My knee-jerk guesstimate of the value of this one would be less than a tenth of that one. I can provide a color print of the gun mentioned above to anyone who might wish to post it here---never mind I don't see what the purpose of that would be.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Xfuzz]

Thanks Ralph...
That was the general thought of some S&W gun show bud's.
The 7.5 inch barrel is what had me vapor-locked.

 

[Truckman]

Thanks Ralph...
That was the general thought of some S&W gun show bud's.
The 7.5 inch barrel is what had me vapor-locked.

It's one I had never seen either, Howie...If you don't want it at the price you mentioned, send him over to me......Ben

 

[rct269]

Jinks has opined that somewhere between 250 and 500 7 1/2" targets were produced. On the one hand, that sounds like "I don't know." On the other hand, all he has to go on are the factory records---which can be sparse; because all they cared about at the time was how many "units" of any TL/TLT's had been sold, and if they'd received payment for them.

An interesting tid-bit from the time: Both fixed sight and targets sold for the same amount---$21. Kind of makes you wish you'd been there then---with the money you have now.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[handejector]

That IS a rare gun.
I do not see any chips on those grips. If not, on their own, I would not sell them for less than $500. If they look really good cleaned up, they might bring 750. Walmart ain't got any.
So, very worn but sound, with those grips, I would ask $2500-3000. It would be a great hole filler till a better one came along, which might not happen this lifetime.

 

[Model19man]

I guess I would try and buy it at the least the seller would accept. Lee's number sounds good for a sell price. Maybe ask 3K then accept a little less.

 

[mrcvs]

Jinks has opined that somewhere between 250 and 500 7 1/2" targets were produced. On the one hand, that sounds like "I don't know." On the other hand, all he has to go on are the factory records---which can be sparse; because all they cared about at the time was how many "units" of any TL/TLT's had been sold, and if they'd received payment for them.

An interesting tid-bit from the time: Both fixed sight and targets sold for the same amount---$21. Kind of makes you wish you'd been there then---with the money you have now.

Ralph Tremaine

Nope, literature from the era demonstrates that the Target Model version sold for $1.50 more, at $22.50 each.

 

[rct269]

Nope, literature from the era demonstrates that the Target Model version sold for $1.50 more, at $22.50 each.

Well I was going by Jinks' "History"---I wasn't there.

That said, it's always been a nonsensical thing to me that they'd sell both for the same price. The target clearly cost more to make---the extra machining, and the sights themselves.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Xfuzz]

Many thanks Lee.....
The grips are what I really like.

I will see in the am if I own it.
If I score I will list it on our classified.

 

[rct269]

The plot thickens-----------------------

I went back to Jinks' History of Smith & Wesson to make sure I'd quoted him correctly. Sure enough, "Any one of these options (caliber options), in fixed or target version, could be ordered from the factory for $21."

Now, as far as the thickening plot goes, he doesn't even mention the 7 1/2" barrel in this book. He notes the 5" and 6 1/2", a "limited quantity" of 4"---and that's all! A 7 1/2" was all I ever had, until I stumbled upon that 6 1/2" King Super Target several years ago----and never gave any thought to how rare the 7 1/2" might be---not paying attention I reckon.

Well, now I am. N&J does note the 7 1/2", but doesn't mention anything besides nuts and bolts technical stuff--which is pretty much what that work is all about anyway. The SCSW (4th) notes the 7 1/2" barrel, and more importantly, also notes, "Barrel lengths other than 6 1/2" will bring a premium; often 50% or more." I didn't take the time to check the three earlier editions, but anything noteworthy would be repeated in the 4th. The values noted go like so: As New In Box $12,000, Exc+ $7500. Exc $5000, VG $2500, Good $1500, and Fair $950. Note these values are circa 2016, and remember that kicker, "Barrel lengths other than 6 1/2" will bring a premium; often 50% or more."

That's about all the news fit to print.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mrcvs]

On 29 July 2022, in the SWCA section of the forum, in the “Questions for Roy Jinks” section of that private section of the forum, I specifically asked Dr Jinks with regards to Triple Lock production, of those produced with a 7 1/2” barrel, what percentage were manufactured as Target Models and what percentage contained fixed sights? He responded on 30 July 2022 that, in his database, 98% of production was the Target Model variation.

This was because I had purchased one such Triple Lock revolver containing a 7 1/2” barrel and fixed sights on 23 July 2022. The cost was $1839.22 and 1/3 cents (such a figure came about when you have 3 revolvers shipped and divide the shipping equally). That was the total cost, including shipping and FFL fees. Photographs of this rare bird are attached to this thread.

It always made no sense to me that the Target Model would cost the same as the standard variation of the Triple Lock revolver. Not too long ago, Lee Jarrett attached a photograph of a pamphlet from the era that specifically stated that a Triple Lock revolver cost $21, but $22.50 if Target sights were desired. Which makes much more sense. Now, if I was into target shooting with a Triple Lock revolver back in the day, I would want a longer barrel, which means that I’m surprised that 98% of the production of Triple Lock revolvers weren’t the Target Model variation.

Lee, if you see this post, can you attach the pamphlet I am referencing to an additional post to this thread?

Lastly, as to valuation of the one the OP has. I don’t know for sure what it would bring, but the price I paid at public auction no less back in 2022 was certainly less than it was really worth. And, the purchase price included a factory letter as well. My revolver shipped to E K Tryon Co in Philadelphia, PA on 07 November 1911.

 

[Hawg Rider]

That's a really nice Triplelock, even with the missing finish. Could those be W&K steer head stocks? Looks like the right sideplate has been removed a time or two, so no telling what the internals look like. How is it mechanically? Is it a safe shooter? I think that $2500 would be a fair asking price, which includes a premium for the 7-1/2" bbl.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Don't see any sign that the side plate has been removed although it could have been. I do agree with the price though , $2500 would not be too much with the carved pearl and rare barrel length. I don't think it's worth any more though.

 

[Xfuzz]

Thanks everyone for the replies and PM's
I do now own it.
Considering a S&W Letter.

 

[handejector]

Considering a S&W Letter.

Congratulations.
There is nothing to consider- rare guns can only benefit from a letter.

 

[rct269]

Don't see any sign that the side plate has been removed although it could have been. I do agree with the price though , $2500 would not be too much with the carved pearl and rare barrel length. I don't think it's worth any more though.

Under the heading of this is not the opening gambit of a debate----it's simply paraphrasing S&W's instructions to owners of their revolvers.

Mr. Southgate's observation suggesting the sideplate has not been removed is the exact same as saying the piece has not been properly maintained. I say paraphrasing, this is an EXACT quote: "Occasional oiling is absolutely necessary to keep a revolver in fine working condition and prevent wear----------and this is best achieved by removing the sideplate-----------."

Any and all to whom this comes as a surprise, or contrary to their beliefs should consider themselves woefully ill informed.

Ralph Tremaine

Edited to add: I should likely have added the fact they then go on to say exactly how to do it----AND exactly how NOT to do it.

 

[M_conrad_0311]

I think your consideration is quite warranted. I have a few I need to submit for letters also. I am really glad that you bought that beautiful big iron. As you can already tell, there are several folks with like interst here who would all have loved for that TL to have fallen in our hands. Congratulations, shoot the snot out of her and enjoy it!

 

[Xfuzz]

Many Thanks for all the information.
I ordered a S&W letter last night.
Guess we will find out when and where it shipped.
Likely, a hardware store hopefully in Texas.

If my math is close and the information provided by rct269 of 250-500
units and with the below info if you take his max(500) 7.5 inch guns produced and 98% were target models that comes to 2% fixed sight 7.5 inch Triple Locks......10.

On 29 July 2022, in the SWCA section of the forum, in the “Questions for Roy Jinks” section of that private section of the forum, I specifically asked Dr Jinks with regards to Triple Lock production, of those produced with a 7 1/2” barrel, what percentage were manufactured as Target Models and what percentage contained fixed sights? He responded on 30 July 2022 that, in his database, 98% of production was the Target Model variation.