Educate me about the Model 19-3 please

[AJMBLAZER]

I'm still chasing after the 28-3 that is sitting in a local shop but was recently offered a 19-3 that looks decent.

Here's the 28-3 thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...-about-highway-patrolman-model-28-please.html

Anyway, here's what the guy had to say about the 19-3:

This is a S&W model 19-3, 4", 6 shots, 357. Excellent condition. I bought it from Gun Site 2 years ago and hardly shot it. Maybe 80 rounds. Very accurate, Comes with a holster and a padded tote. I was asking $500 but negotiable. Here are the pictures.

Gun Site was a local hole in the wall gunstore that has since closed FWIW.

So I know very little about K-frame .357's other than the stories about them wearing out and/or barrel cracking, etc. My intention is to have something that I can definitely shoot heavy .357 loadings out of...but will probably shoot regular .357 and 158 gr .38 loadings most of it's life.
I just want to know that I can shoot 180gr Buffalo Bore or Keith type loads and not worry about it.

I can afford one or the other, not both of these guns. I'm pretty set at waving $450 cash in front of whoever I choose and not going higher.

 

[Camster]

I love my 19-3,but I would lean toward the 28 in your situation.
Not sure how you describe the "heavy load" that you want to shoot-the issue with shooting a lot of 357s from a 19,is mostly a heavy load and light bullet combo.

 

[Sportsterguy]

If you'll be feeding it a steady diet of .357's I'd go with the 28. Especially if you're shooting them heavy BB"s which will wear the 19 out rather quicky. It was made on the N frame just for a steady diet of .357's. The 19 will suffer some premature wear from them .357's , especially from the lighter bullet weight .357 rounds and heavy Buffalo bores.

The 19 is an easier revolver to pack, either open or concealed and if you shoot mainly .38's through it will last a long time. I have small-medium sized hands and can get a better grip allowing for better shooting with my 19 & 66 K frames over the larger N frames.

Both are excellent revolvers and one should have each of them in your collection. If your feeding it a pretty steady diet of .38 and some .357's every so often I'd go with the 19. Tough decision as they're both get revolvers, but I gave you my choice of them two great models. Happy shopping!

 

[Jack Flash]

This is an exerpt from your previous thread:

"I was looking for something that could handle heavy .357 loads all day, every day without trouble..."

Based on that, I would have to say the M19 will certainly wear out before the M28 does.

If you have reduced that requirement somewhat, the M19 could be a serious candidate. The M19 was created to fill the demand for a holster gun that was lighter, smaller and therefore, easier to carry than the M28 and other N-Frames, yet could still be called on to fire full-power .357 loads. An added bonus is that the smaller K-Frame is a better fit for smaller hands. This latter may be important for a house gun, if there is a lady of the house.

In your M28 thread, you also mention that you have considered the Ruger GP100 and the S&W M686. These are also excellent choices where stout loads will be routinely used.

The M686 may be an ideal compromise, in that this L-Frame is between the K- and N-Frames in size and weight, plus it has the same grip frame as a "K" (better fit to smaller hands). It is made of stainless steel, so if it is to be carried, subjected to a harsh environment, etc, it will hold up better than a blued gun.

You are wise to ask a lot of questions before you make a decision. It will almost certainly be more expensive to change your mind after the purchase. In your shoes, I would seek out an M686. They are not all that rare and shouldn't cost more than an M28 in comparable condition. But you have to suit yourself, not me.

 

[1 old 0311]

The 19 isn't the gun for .357 loads because........well because SOMEONE, once had a BROTHER, who KNEW a guy who's mailman lived on the same street as a guy who said so. That is pretty much the extent of the proof.

Logic will tell you that something smaller, be it handgun, transmission, differential, or sofa won't have the longevity of a heavier one but to be honest in 45+ years of shooting I have N-E-V-E-R seen a K frame 'worn out from shooting.'

 

[2ifbyC]

Logic will tell you that something smaller, be it handgun, transmission, differential, or sofa won't have the longevity of a heavier one but to be honest in 45+ years of shooting I have N-E-V-E-R seen a K frame 'worn out from shooting.'

Thanks for your honest assessment.

To say a gun will wear out quickly due to shooting .357 loads in a revolver designed for the round is somewhat vague. If the issue is frame cracking or cylinder-to-bore gap expansion, then the recommendations would be more meaningful.

 

[NE450No2]

The Mod 19 in 357 Mag came about mainly for Law Enforcement use.
Many were already carrying K frame 38's and the Mod 19 gave them a 357 Mag that would fit in their same holsters.
Many still shot 38's on duty, even those that carried 357 Mags on duty, still practiced and qualified with 38's.

Same with sportsmen that bought the Mod 19, is was always considered a light duty 357 Mag.

What lead to the down fall of the Mod 19 was when it became standard practice for Police Depts to require their officers to qualify with their duty ammo. This was also when many officers quyit carrying 41, and 44 Mags.

I was an LEO durring this time, and carrying a 44 Mag S&W.

Well the Mod 19's & 66's began to need tuneups a lot more often and also the recoil in the K frame with full power magnums was a little much for many officers, over the usually, 50 round qualification.
Many officers when back to 38 Specials, for the duty loads in their 357 Mags.


The N frame 357's were just a little too big for these modern Police Officers, so S&W came out with the L frame, its design upgrades enabling a lot more magnums being shot between tuneups.

Also this was about the time that the 9mm semiautos were being adopted by many agencies.

All the above just IMHO, but it is baised on what I observed.

 

[2ifbyC]

Well the Mod 19's & 66's began to need tuneups a lot more often and also the recoil in the K frame with full power magnums was a little much for many officers, over the usually, 50 round qualification.
Many officers when back to 38 Specials, for the duty loads in their 357 Mags.

The N frame 357's were just a little too big for these modern Police Officers, so S&W came out with the L frame, its design upgrades enabling a lot more magnums being shot between tuneups.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Model 19 as a LEO; it is an interesting historical perspective.

I purchased my Model 19-3 in the early seventies. I have no law enforcement experience. My main interest was in the .357 round since S&W advertised the revolver as a Combat Magnum. I have only a few hundred rounds in the gun since I lived in the East where public ranges were limited.

I am now trying to familiarize myself with the gun prior to shooting it. Since the gun will mostly be used for target practice, I am contemplating the use of Wolff springs to lighten the trigger pull. I do not understand the term “tune-up” as used in your write-up. Could you please explain that exactly a “tune-up” entails?

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Thanks guys.

Based on this I will attempt to keep pursuing that 28-3. Sure did feel good in my hands.

 

[stevieboy]

I own a 19-3 and a Model 27, and I used to own a Model 28. In my opinion, none of these guns is immune to wear. My 27 developed significant end shake, as did my 28, after thousands of rounds of .357. The cost of fixing the problem was slight, less than $100 in each case. My 19, on the other hand, has never shown a problem, after many rounds of use.

I prefer firing "heavy" magnums from my 27 because it absorbs recoil much better than the lighter K-frame 19. It's easier on my hands, I can reacquire the target more quickly, and shooting the hot stuff is just more pleasant from the N than from the K. But, the K has its advantages. I couldn't imagine lugging a gun as heavy as my Model 27 all day long, much less concealing it. My 19, on the other hand, is a dream to carry and easy to conceal.

 

[NE450No2]

A "tune up" on a S&W consists of correcting points and part of wear.
It depends on what needs "fixing" but can consist of a new hand, new locking bolt, correcting endshake, and any other parts that have worn.

I have two 29-2's, my first 6 1/2" and my first 4" that I got back in the mid 1970's. Both were used as work guns, duty and off duty, and hunting guns. The 6 1/2" has been "tuned up" twice, the 4" three times.
They have been shot a lot. The forcing cones and other major parts are still just fine. They both have shot a lot of Elmer Keith 2400 loads, and factory loads.

 

[NE450No2]

More thoughts on the Mod 19...

When I was a young kid I read all of my dads Outdoor Life, Field and Stream, and Sports Afield Magazines. There were a few advertisements that always caught my attention.

One was the add for the S&W Mod 19. It showed a 6". It talked about the Mod 19 as a target revolver with 38 Wadcutters, a defensive gun with 38 Specials and a hunting gun with 357 Mags. I knew I would have to have one.

Also the adds about the Mod 60 in stainless steel...

And then there were the adds about the Ruger 44 Mag Deerstalker.
Bill Ruger had taken one to Uganda, Modified to a straight pull, because of laws against semiautos there, and killed ALL manner of plains game...

So when my dad and I went to a fellas house answering an add in the paper about a Winchester 30/30 and a Ruger 44 Mag for sale, I insisted on the Ruger 44 Mag. My dad had never heard of it, but it was MY money I had earned painting out house...

My first handgun was a S&W Mod 41 as my dad wanted me to get started in Bullseye shooting, my second handgun being an Accurized 1911...

So since my first rifle was a 44 Mag, my third handgun was a 44 Mag Super Blackhawk. My second revolver a 6 1/2" Mod 29.

So while I have owned several 357 Mags over the years, I just never carried them much because since High School, I have been a 44 Mag kind of guy...

I have nothing against any handgun calibre, but when you have S&W 44 Mags, and Colt 1911,s, what else do you need???

OK some 22 LR's and a 38 Special Airweight Bodyguard...

But for a primary I prefer a S&W revolver in 44 Mag, or 45 ACP/AR, or a 1911 in 45 ACP.

Still I understand the Utility of a Mod 19/66...
And the functionability of an L frame or an N frame 357 Mag, for 357 Mag kind of guys...

 

[roaddog28]

The model 19 and all the K frame magnums are the best balanced, handling and have the best double action trigger that I have ever handled. I own three. All of the revolvers mentioned I have either owned at one time or still own. The N frame 27/28 are fine shooting revolvers for 357 magnums. But I have small hands and have a hard time reaching the trigger and shooting comfortly. For people with large hands its not a problem. I also own a 686 and used to own a Ruger GP100. Both are fine revolvers again for shooting 357 magnums. I sold my GP100 simply because I like the trigger pull on my 686 better. Plus the grip is the closest to the K frame. The issue with the model 19 and 357 magnums. Shooting 158 gr rounds at around 1300 fps will not be a problem. The shooter most likely will not wear a model 19 in his or her lifetime. The issue wilh the model 19 was constant shooting of light high velocity 357 magnums. This would be 125 gr or lighter traveling at over 1500 fps. This round will accelarate wear faster on the model 19. But this round will wear out any revolver faster including the model 27.
You mentioned shooting Buffalo Bores 180 gr round. Too be this is a hunting round made for taking down deer and other game. The model 27/28 or even the 686 will be better and have less recoil than the model 19. But in my opinion none of these revolvers are idea for that type of round. I would rather have a single action revolver on a big frame like the New Model Blackhawk shooting a 180 gr round simply because the frame is built on a large 44 magnum frame. The model 27 would be closest also because of being built on a 44 magnum frame.
It sounds like you are going to shoot a little be of everything. I would suggest like Jack Flash said getting pre-lock 686. Because its a all around revolver not just good on one thing.

 

[NE450No2]

roaddog28

I too have small hands. When I shoot my N Frame S&W's I have to crank my hand around a little from what most people consider the ideal hand to wrist alignment.

I just grip her tight, and "crank" on the trigger...

Been working for me since 1971...

But I will agree the K frames are sweet to shoot.

 

[roaddog28]

NE450No2,
That will work but I would have to buy some aftermarket grips so I can shoot say 100 rounds comfortely. I found that either the 686 or the Ruger GP100 I could shoot more rounds and not get tired gripping the revolver. But I will give the edge on recoil to the model 27. Again, if a person has bigger hands I think the model 27 is the best for shooting 357s.
Regards,
Howard

 

[2ifbyC]

Thanks gentlemen, you pinpointed many of the issues to be considered when purchasing a handgun, i.e., weight, recoil, loads, longevity, and grip. Too often we are enamored by the legend, looks, fad, or notoriety of a gun (AKA Dirty Harry syndrome) and forget the weapon’s intended purpose. I fell into that line of thinking and quickly went out and bought a S&W .41 magnum and a S&W .44 magnum. To own the “world’s most powerful handgun” was a thrill that quickly faded since it wasn’t fun to shoot; I sold both of them.

I agree that how the gun feels/fits in you hand is one of the most important aspects. As stated, all guns wear out but on quality firearms, that should not be the top criteria for purchase; the gun will probably outlast you under normal service.

I now have a better understanding of the versatility of the K-frame and in particular the Model 19 and why it still commands admiration from its owners.

 

[chud333]

I shot a 19-3 for a long time and never shot anything but 357 factory jacketed hollowpoints in it while growing up. It had a 7 inch bbl and i personally never had any issues with mine. I've got smaller hands and the N-frames just don't fit me as well. So i say, buy the one that turns you on and fits you best.

 

[jwr0201]

k & L frame 357's

My two favorite 357's are both 4" - a 686 and a 66-1. Both have original wood combat grips and are very comfortable. I prefer to shoot 357 in the 686 and 38 in the 66. Although the 66 has been shot a lot more, I prefer the it frame for accuracy. You can't go wrong with either, but watch the forcing cone on the k frames if they had a lot of full 357 loads with 125gr bullets.

 

[old bear]

In addition to being a revolver you carry a lot and shoot a little the M-19 is also one of the finest all around revolvers produced. So if you need a carry weapon get the M-19. If you are planning on shooting lots of hot rock and roll .357 Magnum ammo get the M-28.

 

[62bowtie]

My 19

The 19 isn't the gun for .357 loads because........well because SOMEONE, once had a BROTHER, who KNEW a guy who's mailman lived on the same street as a guy who said so. That is pretty much the extent of the proof.

Logic will tell you that something smaller, be it handgun, transmission, differential, or sofa won't have the longevity of a heavier one but to be honest in 45+ years of shooting I have N-E-V-E-R seen a K frame 'worn out from shooting.'

I have had a 19 6" since 1975 and have not had a problem. I shoot all loads without a hickup. I also have a 27 8 3/8" a great gun, any of which you should have no problem with. I am new to this site and discovered it a few months ago and am not any type of expert on S&W's. There are far more experts on this site with more knowledge than I. Good luck in whatever you choose, I know you will enjoy it.