ELIMINATION OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG

[GatorFarmer]

Amazon pulled all the Confederate toy soldiers. Yes, really. They still have the Union ones, now sans anyone to fight. I guess you can get a bag of toy Indians...er Native Americans...and still re enact the Fetterman Massacre, Sand Creek Massacre, etc.

Stupid media hysteria. Now they went and took something wholesome, like silk Confederate flag box shorts that say "The South Shall Rise Again", and made it seem somehow dirty.

 

[Laketime]

I personally like all the attention to the Confederate flag that's going on right now.As more and more people look into its origin,they will be stunned to see what party it actually represented.This revisit of History has been long overdue in the country.

 

[M&P Freak]

 

[DWalt]

Fortunes await for those who saw this coming and ordered a boatload of Chinese-made Confederate flags. They'll mark them up 1000% and make a fortune selling them.

 

[BB57]

Before we get too much farther off course, let's be clear that no one is saying the confederate flag should be banned / made illegal, etc.

Infringement of free speech is not the issue at all.

The issue is whether a state government, representing people of all races, not just whites, should continue to fly what has become a symbol of white supremacy.

Yeah I know...that's not what it's supposed to represent, but through bad planning and a failure by Southern states to set appropriate social norms, or failing that, proactively pass laws regulating the use and display of the confederate flag, it has been co-opted by both racists and stereotypical rednecks.

The reality is that now, like it or not, associated with those groups and is no longer appropriate to be flown by a state.

Southern states would still fix that by setting some standards for the appropriate use and display of the Confederate flag - as has long been the case for the US flag.

 

[Grayfox]

How could so many of our state and national leaders suddenly become haters of history and heritage?

Because it serves their purposes. As long as the people of this country are divided, fussing and fighting among themselves, they don't pay attention to what government is actually doing. By playing to the public's "offending item of the day" politicians distract us from issues that really do matter. It leaves them free to do whatever they want.

 

[BB57]

Also, just the purpose of clarifying a historical point - not discussing race in general - let's briefly consider this quote made by Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America on March 21, 1861 in Savannah, Georgia during his Cornerstone Speech:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition."

One can argue that the confederate flag is supposed to represent a proud, independent, southern heritage. However the reality is that it started out as a symbol of a government committed to maintaining the institution of slavery. For some people, that has never changed and that symbol still stands for oppression and white supremacy.

Oddly enough, I'll fight and even lay down my life for the right of people to exercise their freedom on speech to spout positions I do not agree with and fly what ever flags they like. However, I will not tolerate the idea that a historic symbol of oppression should be flown on state grounds, given the equal rights and representation of all people regardless of color.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Amazon pulled all the Confederate toy soldiers. Yes, really. They still have the Union ones, now sans anyone to fight. I guess you can get a bag of toy Indians...er Native Americans...and still re enact the Fetterman Massacre, Sand Creek Massacre, etc.

Stupid media hysteria. Now they went and took something wholesome, like silk Confederate flag box shorts that say "The South Shall Rise Again", and made it seem somehow dirty.

I guess my "Hell no-I ain't fergittin'" License plate is gonna soon be a collectors item
What about all those little stores that sell all those useful travel trinkets like the rebel flag shot glass ? Or the rebel flag on the fake zippo lighters? I'm in a highly satirical New Orleans Mardi Gras Krewe and I'll bet that the float designers are already thinking up ways to make sure confederate flags are on all the floats no matter what the theme will be

Might even throw little bitty confederate flags or confederate flag beads-hell I'll bet the committee is calling a special meeting with the China suppliers even as we speak

 

[Frizzman]

I agree that ONLY the state and United States Flags should be flown at government property locations funded by taxpayers...But, the argument is also similar to gun control schemes. How can some minor "common sence" restrictions on gun ownership hurt? There isn't fear that such restrctions are just the start, is there?...It starts with the battle flags from government property. Fair enough...But now its become about removing memorials and big Chinamarts baning ANYTHING related to the Confederacy. Our illustrious Governor orders ending the sales of and confication of state vehicle plates with The Sons of Confederate Veterans emblem...Two cities in my area are considering removal of Confederate veterans monuments. When will it become illegal to display any Confederate flags in public like it is with Nazi flags and insignia in Germany?...Well, if flags and monuments related to anyone who owned slaves, advocated for that, sold slaves or anthing used for that purpose or upheld any laws supporting slavery then many, many statues, flags, memorials, flags and emblems should be banned and removed in the ALL states...Including northern states.

 

[Bat Guano]

Personally I'm pretty ambivalent about the Stars and Bars. But it's a part of our history. That means that the history books aren't issued in loose leaf format so new, politically correct pages can be put in by the authorities at will. YET.

What does concern me is something coming out of left field from an evil little punk morphs into a cringeworthy squabble--and politicians do synchronized backflips.

Somewhere Big Brother is laughing.

 

[JSR III]

I just read that they are also considering banning white sheets.

It all started when they banned dodge ball because little Billie's feelings might get hurt. Then it was let's not keep score.

Pardon me, I'm gonna go outside and run with scissors.....

 

[Jessie]

I can understand not flying it at a government facility. Everybody pays for that through taxes, so Everybody has a say in it.
As far as commercial operations removing its sale, that's up to them and the market will determine if they're right or wrong.
I find it ironic that NOBODY has said a word about it until now though.
I see opportunists at work with this one.

 

[Engine 21]

I'm a "Yankee" and have NO problem with the Confederate Flag.

 

[loknload]

I wonder what these two gentlemen would have to say about this nonsense, after all they fought for it!

 

[GatorFarmer]

The issue is whether a state government, representing people of all races, not just whites, should continue to fly what has become a symbol of white supremacy.

That idea denies the true heritage of many who fought for the CSA. Keep in mind, I am originally from Michigan. What ancestors I had in the country then were Union soldiers. However, free Blacks, mixed raced individuals, Latinos, and many Native Americans fought for the CSA. I used to live in SC, I remember Black folks who flew the flag because their own ancestors had fought for the CSA believing it to be their home.

 

[ladder13]

Read Saul Alinsky's "12 Rules for radicals" it's all spelled out.

Tactics​

"Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. ... Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves." p.126

Always remember the first rule of power tactics (pps.127-134):
1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.
3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."
5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."
6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."
8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."
11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."
12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

 

[ModernRifle]

I'm kinda' wonderin'. .
Now that this flag is gone, is the racism gone with it?

Hint: Suppressing symbolism and expressing emotion doesn't solve problems.

PLEASE NOTE: I am against the move to demonize the flag, and never associated it with racism, only as the Conf Army Flag.

 

[walnutred]

I ain't the brightest bulb in the box so how are those of you calling for the ban of these flags on Federal property going to handle Confederate flags in National Cemetaries and NPS battlefirlds from the era? I think most of those are Federal property. Even though I'm in Ohio there is a cemetary for Confederate soldiers who died at Camp Chase as POWs about 20 miles from me. While my ancestors fought to preserve the Union it does not seem right somehow to not let those former soldiers lay under the flag for which they fought.

 

[sasu]

I live in Europe, but I have a Confederate flag and a Gadsden flag. I bought them because they symbolize struggle against tyranny and oppression.

We do not have a flag pole at our house but the time for it may have come.

 

[Beemerguy53]

In 1989, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that burning or desecrating the American flag was protected under "free speech".

And flying the Confederate flag is NOT protected?? I guess it's protected but not PC. Where will this BS end?

The media love this development.

I'm from Ohio and the Confederate flag doesn't bother me one bit.

You make an interesting observation. It's occurred to me that many of the folks who don't understand why someone would be offended by the Confederate flag, are the very same people who think burning the American flag should be illegal.

All flags are symbols of a sentiment or ideology or conviction. Unfortunately, the Confederate flag has, too often, been flown by those whose sentiments or convictions are hateful or racist.

In any event, those who wish to display that flag on private property can certainly do so. And elected officials have the right to decide whether to display it on public property.