Enfield Rifles

[CGhelofxr]

I have a friend looking for magazines for an Enfield rifle. He says he needs MK4 magazines which he can't find.

What would be the difference in magazines between MK1, MK2 and MK4?

 

[Jack Flash]

The British used a system of nomenclature for their rifles that changed over the years. It can get a little confusing.

My guess would be that he wants a magazine for a Number 4, Mark I.

Gun Parts (Numerich) used to have them, and they may still. Just do a google search.

 

[zzzippper]

I don't know the answer to your question but here is one for sale:
Lee-Enfield 303 m/56 Magazine Mk IV V 4 5 : Everything Else at GunBroker.com

I think they were normally reloaded with stripper clips straight into the magazine, not by swapping out magazines.

 

[fiasconva]

Have him give Enfield-Rifles.com a try.

 

[Jack Flash]

You should have your friend do some research before he buys to make sure he is getting the right magazine.

These rifles are more properly called Lee-Enfields. I will not try to go through the entire history here. Ian Skennerton is "the" authority on this subject has written books, articles, etc. He has a website that may be very helpful.

I googled "Lee-Enfield Rifle" and got this Wiki article. I am sure there is a lot more information from better authorities than Wikipedia, but this will at least let him match his rifle to a picture and thus get the correct designation.
Lee-Enfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[k22fan]

The SMLEs that were made by the millions are the World War One No. 1 Mk III and World War Two No. 4 Mk 1. Both were not issued with extra magazines. They were loaded with the same 5 round stripper clips. Their magazines are different. The differences are described here in replies 31 and 32: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/419643-enfield-no4-mk

I do not know the details of pre-WWI magazines but the No. 4 Mk 1’s magazine fits all newer SMLEs except for the Indian Ishapore .762 NATO chambered SMLEs.

 

[Bat Guano]

Can't remember the source, but a couple of days ago I saw that new ones were available. Maybe if the Googleforce is with you you can find it.

 

[Ματθιας]

Please, don't buy aftermarket new ones. They may or may not work. Buy used surplus- they have a better chance of working.

 

[2152hq]

You have to know what variation of the British Enfield you have before buying a magazine for it.

The WW1 SMLE rifle was the MkIII/MkIII*.
It later (mid 20's) became the No1 MkIII(*)

The magazine for this rifle has cartridge guide indentations on both sides that extend fully to the bottom of the magazine case.
Plus on the back spine of the mag case in the lower position is a separate small flat spring riveted in place to keep the magazine from rattleing when in the rifle.
At the top of the rear spine is a solid hook notch that secures the magazine in the rifle by the magazine latch.

The WW2 rifle was the 'No4' Rifle
The WW2 Jungle Carbine was the 'No5'

Both of these use the same magazine configuration.
Easily ID'd as the cartridge guide indentations on the sides Do Not extend all the way to the bottom of the magazine case.
Also there is No small flat spring (anti-rattle spring) on the lower back spine of the mag case


Those are the 2 main 303cal magazines for the 2 main 303 SMLE rifles out there plus the Jungle Carbine.
The 2 different magazines are not considered interchangeable.

There are early mag versions for the SMLE that were used on the MkI(*) SMLE (pre 1907). Those are rare and pricey. They have a slightly different forward shape to take into account the earlier heavy round nose ammo (Mk6) plus a couple variations of small pivoting arms on the upper sides to allow disassembly.
These will work in a later (ww1) MkIII SMLE but they are worth more as collectors items and as restoration items to rebuilders like me trying to put hacked up pre 1907 MkI(*) SMLEs back together.

The Ishapore 2A and 2A1 7.62NATO cal rifle uses it's own 12rd magazine for that rimless round. A straight sided box with a flat detachable bottom.

The .22cal conversion training rifles (No2 Rifle) were single shot and simply used a gutted No1 Mag box. The empty cases fall off the bolt face and into the magazine box.

The rarity in 22 cal Enfields is the Parker Hiscock Magazine
A somewhat complicated magazine assembly for the No2 single shot Enfield training rifle that turned it into a repeating rifle w/ full bolt throw manipulation. Besides the magazine, a separate bolt head was supplied w/the magazine assembly as it needed to be fitted to properly feed and then push the inner assembly of the magazine down and out of the way as the bolt closes.
If you see one at a garage sale buy it!

 

[CGhelofxr]

Thanks to all for the help, and I thought it would be easy. I'll get a little more info from him.

 

[Stevie]

Hmm there are older version Enfield No.1 Mk.III mags converted to fit No.4/No.5 rifles and sold as mags for the No.4 rifle. These will work...but not really a proper mag for a No.4 rifle.

The thing to remember about Lee Enfields is that the 'magazines' that they use are not really meant to be interchangeable in the usual sense(carrying extra loaded mags). They are merely detachable from the rifle. Each rifle's mag-box is/was tuned to the rifle. Extra ammo carried in stripper-clips...

 

[Jack Flash]

Thanks to all for the help, and I thought it would be easy. I'll get a little more info from him.

It sounds worse than it actually is. Odds are he has a No. 4 or a No. 1 so there should be only two possibilities. Since he called it a Mark IV, if I had to bet, I would put my money on a magazine for a No. 4.

Some folks say that a spare magazine is not needed for these since they are meant to be reloaded via chargers with the magazine remaining in position on the rifle. However, I think it is a good idea to have a spare mag. If you lose or damage the only mag you have, the rifle then becomes a single shot.

 

[ironhead7544]

A new magazine might need to be fitted to the rifle.

Back in the 60ties I thought a spare magazine would be good to carry. It wont work. The cartridges would not stay loaded in the magazine while out of the rifle.

I bought my No. 4 at Sears for $12.99 in VG condition. They also had brand new No. 5 carbines for $19.99. The 38/200 and 455 revolvers were about $15.00 to $20.00.

 

[mxbob]

I have a spare mag for the No4 and No5 rifles. If that is what you need PM me.
Thanks
Bob Ray

 

[2152hq]

Surplus magazines are just that,,used and quite often slightly bent out of shape. Sometimes easily seen,,sometimes not.

More than a few I've had come thru couldn't be inserted into the rifle at all or w/o a healthy wack to seat it. The latter shouldn't be necessary.

The side walls being bowed outward slightly from being dropped on one of it's ends is the usual problem. Careful tapping them back into line with the spring and follower removed fixes that problem.

Filing the latch surface on the mag spine is the last thing in getting the magazine to lock into place securely.
It's usually not needed as something else is usually interfering with the mag seating full depth. Most magazines (used) have already been tinkered with a bit and have been filed at the latch surface anyway so little if any needs be taken off additional there.

Another trouble spot can be the trigger guard itself which has thin rails outlining the mag opening. These rails get bent too and interfere.
If you file the latch surface on the spine to get it to lock, but prematurely,,it only adds to feeding problems as the magazine is then too low in position.

Make sure the magazine latch itself is coming full forward and isn't chipped off making it unable to secure the mag at any depth.

The best way to see what's happening on a stubborn one is to remove the forend wood and fit the magazine so you can see the mag latch and the magazine interact and get them to lock with the magazine seated at full depth.


The mag feed lip tabs get bent too or 'adjusted' by a well meaning shooter, especially if someone is using commercial soft point ammo or reloads and not standard Mk7 ammo.

An extra magazine or two is a nice thing to have. I never considered an extra a quick reload type of thing,,some will not securely hold a full charge when out of the rifle anyway.
It's just a spare to me because the one in the rifle is detachable and liable to get lost or damaged.
The quick & handy reload are those 5rd charger clips. But I don't carry those much anymore to the range either. Paper targets never seem to run away on me.

 

[Stirling]

The mag feed lip tabs get bent too or 'adjusted' by a well meaning shooter, especially if someone is using commercial soft point ammo or reloads and not standard Mk7 ammo.

An extra magazine or two is a nice thing to have. I never considered an extra a quick reload type of thing,,some will not securely hold a full charge when out of the rifle anyway.
It's just a spare to me because the one in the rifle is detachable and liable to get lost or damaged.
The quick & handy reload are those 5rd charger clips. But I don't carry those much anymore to the range either. Paper targets never seem to run away on me.

I haven't had any issues shooting soft points in mine and I too considered getting a spare mag or two but never found it necessary. It's a bolt action rifle that was designed to be used with stripper clips that in fact do work very well. An old friend of mine was a British Para and he could shoot 38 aimed rounds a minute. Like you say, paper targets don't run.

 

[k22fan]

I have owned a few SMLE No. 4s and don't recall ever having a feeding jam or failure to eject. I've mostly loaded round nose home cast but did experiment with jacketed soft points. All of my SMLEs still had their serial numbered magazine. Perhaps it's best to only buy SMLEs that still have their factory fitted magazine.

The biggest draw back to old war time SMLEs is their oversize chambers, not their reliability. For me the best of the breed are post WWII manufactured No. 4 MK IIs. They have chambers cut to tolerances that make it a lot easier to get long brass life. Runner up are the Canadian No. 4 MK Is with dark walnut stocks.