Erfurt Luger advice needed

[runscott]

I just picked up a 1918 Erfurt Luger. It appears to be in nice condition; however, it has an after-market magazine. When I put the mag in and try to lock the toggle, it won't stay. Is that because the spring in the magazine isn't strong enough?

Or could there be another problem?

Also, I can't get the lever on the left to go down so that I can break down the gun. Thanks!

 

[diyj98]

It's probably the spring or follower on the aftermarket magazine causing the toggle not to stay back.

Are you pushing back on the barrel while you're trying to move the takedown lever? you need to do that before the lever will move freely.

 

[runscott]

It's probably the spring or follower on the aftermarket magazine causing the toggle not to stay back.

Are you pushing back on the barrel while you're trying to move the takedown lever? you need to do that before the lever will move freely.

Thanks. I'll look for another magazine.

Yes, pushing back on the barrel - no movement. There are hints of recent lubrication, so I'm guessing it's been broken down recently, and this is just me not knowing the gun.

 

[Walter Rego]

I have one of the nickel plated Mec-Gar mags that I use in my 1935 Mauser Luger and it works perfectly. They have a good reputation for reliability, what brand is the after market mag ?

 

[M29since14]

I've used the Mecgar magazines in my Mauser Parabellum with good results. Might give one a try.

 

[runscott]

I have one of the nickel plated Mec-Gar mags that I use in my 1935 Mauser Luger and it works perfectly. They have a good reputation for reliability, what brand is the after market mag ?

I can't find any labeling on it. I will look into whether or not the Men-Gar mag you mention will work with this gun. Thank you.

BTW - I did get the take-down lever to go down, so the field stripping has begun!

 

[CZU]

The hold-open/spring or both may be missing, or a bad mag. As was mentioned above, Mec-Gars are the go to mags.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Erfurt guns are interesting. I have one pretty much just like yours. Erfurt did only brand new military production or rebuilds of their own or other manufacturer's guns for the military. Their new guns were what is often called functionally ugly, they do not have nearly the finish the commercial production guns did, however they work just fine.

 

[Stevie]

Early P08 Lugers did not have the toggle hold-open feature

 

[runscott]

If it IS the magazine, I don't want to shoot it until I have a properly-functioning one, so I ordered a mec-gar. I'll finish learning the complete break-down process and clean it today. Thanks for all the input.

 

[sheepdawg]

Early P08 Lugers did not have the toggle hold-open feature

A Luger made in 1918 is not an early one. Lugers made during WWI and on have the hold open device.

 

[2152hq]

Take the magazine out of the pistol.
Now hold the pistol Upsidedown.
Then retract the toggle all the way to rear and shake the pistol a bit.
At that point release the toggle and see if the toggle is locked to the rear.

If the 'holdopen' is present and not stuck in the down position by rust, old oil, ect,,simple gravity will often let it drop in front of the breech block when the pistol is upside down and lock the pistol open.

Putting the pistol right side up,,the holdopen will then drop back down (disengage) eitherby gravity again,,or preferably by the holdopen return spring pressing on it. Simply pull the toggle back just a bit and let it forward to disengage theholdopen and close the breech.

You should be able to see the holdopen itself in the frame when you pull the toggle all the way open.
It's an L shaped part that sits in a reverse L position. The lower leg of the L is accross the base of the breech block. The longer stem is along the right side of the magazine well.

The 'button' on the side of the Luger magazine is what activates the holdopen.
The holdopen is held down (disengaged) by it's holdopen spring. A lightweight narrow flat spring that sits over the top of the holdopen and engages the holdopen pivot pin to it's rear in the frame.

As the magazine button rises along the side of the magazine as shots are fired and new rounds fed into the pistol, the button climbs higher and higher along the side of the mag till on the last shot fed from the magazine that button engages the holdopen and pushes it upwards against it's flat spring pressure.
That upward movement makes it pop up in front of the breechblock as it travels to the rear and then holds it there, breech open on the last shot.

Sometimes aftermarket magazines don't quite fit right. The button may be too big around to slide freely, or too small around to engage the holdopen. Too thin to engage the holdopen is also a problem sometimes.

Hold open can just plainly be missing, but it should work even if the holdopen spring is not there.
If the spring is there, be careful removeing. It comes out w/o much of any bending to remove. It slips out from under that pin. Much bending to remove it and you'll have a two piece holdopen spring,,not an uncommon thing. Repro's are available .

 

[runscott]

I just came back to report success, and saw your post. I think what you described is probably pretty much what I did. I followed the instructions for take-down in this video: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-RL98gXKTQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-RL98gXKTQ[/ame]

...and when I put the gun back together, everything worked perfectly. Strangely, I had broken it down a few times yesterday with no change - the toggle was very difficult to pull up, and then it snapped right back down. The only thing I did differently from the video was holding the gun upside-down to put the barrel assembly back on.

Now I pull it up smoothly, it locks, and I can repeat easily.

I'm dying to take it to the range and shoot it - any suggestions for pre-range items to check?

 

[dave1918a2]

Take 125 grain ammo. Leave the 115 gr stuff at home. I shoot 125 gr American eagle in mine and it is accurate.

 

[runscott]

Take 125 grain ammo. Leave the 115 gr stuff at home. I shoot 125 gr American eagle in mine and it is accurate.

Thanks, Since I'm only experienced with revolvers and non-Luger semi-autos, I'm just wondering if there are safety concerns.

 

[runscott]

Take 125 grain ammo. Leave the 115 gr stuff at home. I shoot 125 gr American eagle in mine and it is accurate.

I have been firing 124 out of my semi-autos. This is the first I've heard of 125 - I had to google it to find where I had lost that extra grain.

 

[GypsmJim]

I have a double dated 1917 DWM. It was originally an Artillery Luger, converted in 1920. It has several police agency proofs on it, so its been around the block a few times.

I have been shooting 124 and 125 lead RN bullets thru it for 20+ years. My P38 likes 124 CN bullets best, and they work fine in the Luger as well.

A few years ago I found some cheap bulk 115 FMJ and they work very well too.

The mag I got with it was a WWII aluminum base, and i retired it at the onset, replacing it with a generic black plastic base mag. I don't remember where i got it, but it works well.

 

[Kurusu]

Take 125 grain ammo. Leave the 115 gr stuff at home. I shoot 125 gr American eagle in mine and it is accurate.

115 grs shoots good for me in a Luger. To each his own.

[ame="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EPN5CBB_M"]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EPN5CBB_M[/ame]

 

[Tex1001]

I would replace the recoil spring, just to be sure.
, Warning: There will be blood.
Replace the firing pin spring.
A spare locking bolt spring wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Andyd]

The old civilian manual "Die Selbstlade-Pistole "PARABELLUM" " from DWM states an 8 gram (123.4 grains) projectile at 310 m/s (1017 fps) for the 9mm.

It also points out to have the pistol upside down when reassembling upper and lower.

 

[Kurusu]

The old civilian manual "Die Selbstlade-Pistole "PARABELLUM" " from DWM states an 8 gram (123.4 grains) projectile at 310 m/s (1017 fps) for the 9mm.

It also points out to have the pistol upside down when reassembling upper and lower.

We have used the P.08 as a service pistol from 1943 to 1961(they were actually byf 42 P.08 Mausers that were delivered to us instead instead of the German Army) as the main sidearm, and as a secondary sidearm up to 1975, after we adopted the P.38 in 1961.

Our own defense industries(now gone I'm afraid) used a 115 grs(7,45 grams) bullet that was tailored for the P.08 and was NATO certified. They were of excellent quality.

Still got a box left from a 1999 lot .

I burned thousands of these things.

 

[CZU]

Thanks, Since I'm only experienced with revolvers and non-Luger semi-autos, I'm just wondering if there are safety concerns.

Yes there are, I wouldn't use any 9mm +P varieties. Mine like S&B and Winchester White Box.

 

[schutzen-jager]

We have used the P.08 as a service pistol from 1943 to 1961(they were actually byf 42 P.08 Mausers that were delivered to us instead instead of the German Army) as the main sidearm, and as a secondary sidearm up to 1975, after we adopted the P.38 in 1961.

Our own defense industries(now gone I'm afraid) used a 115 grs(7,45 grams) bullet that was tailored for the P.08 and was NATO certified. They were of excellent quality.

Still got a box left from a 1999 lot .

I burned thousands of these things.

Portugal was issuing them to their army + navy well before the 1942 Mausers - testing began in 1902 + procurement of grip safety models began before WWI -

 

[Kurusu]

Portugal was issuing them to their army + navy well before the 1942 Mausers - testing began in 1902 + procurement of grip safety models began before WWI -

The Army was issued .30 Luger pistols of the 1906 pattern in 1909(contract of 3.500 pistols). The Navy had a contract of 500 pistols in 9mm of the 1906 pattern fulfilled in 1910/1911.

Edit. My M2 Army contract.

 

[runscott]

Yes there are, I wouldn't use any 9mm +P varieties. Mine like S&B and Winchester White Box.

My safety concerns were more about preparation for shooting the gun-I have plenty of normal 9mm 124 and 114 FMJ ammo.

I've been breaking it down and putting it back together, to make sure it's going to function correctly, but I've gotten different results;e.g-the last time I put it back together I had to use a screwdriver (wrapped in cloth) to get the take-down lever to go down. I'm at a point now where it 'cocks' (the toggle goes up and stops, then I can pull the trigger to simulate firing).

Breaking it down to a point where you would need a punch tool to remove the smaller pins, all the parts look good, as if it was cleaned properly within the last few decades. My plan is to clean it with Hoppes, grease some of the metal-to-metal areas, and then take it to the range once the new mec-gar magazine arrives.

 

[schutzen-jager]

The Army was issued .30 Luger pistols of the 1906 pattern in 1909(contract of 3.500 pistols). The Navy had a contract of 500 pistols in 9mm of the 1906 pattern fulfilled in 1910/1911.

Edit. My M2 Army contract.

plus another 756 delivered between 1935 + 1940 in both 7.65 + 9mm -

 

[Kurusu]

plus another 756 delivered between 1935 + 1940 in both 7.65 + 9mm -

I think the 7,65 you are referring(a little over 550) were not for the Army but for a paramilitay law enforcement agency called GNR(Guarda Nacional Republicana) and are so marked over the chamber. In between the wars the Army was also using Savage 1907 pistols in .32 ACP bought in 1915.

The Navy did in fact buy a few(no ideia of the quanties) 9mm from Mauser still of the 1906 patern and yet another few of the 08 pattern but they have no special Navy markings. In fact the only tell tale signs of them being Portuguese are the words "seguranca" instead of "gesichert" and "carregada" instead of "geladen".

 

[schutzen-jager]

first procurement
5000 1906 models for royal army
1000 model 1906 for royal navy
second procurement for Republic navy
1000 model 1906
only 564 for GNR by Mauser -

first Savage order was shipped before WWI 9 12/23/16 + 1/10/17 not between the wars -
total purchase 1,150 units all procured by Direccao Material de Guerra Marinha for both navy + army use in 7.65 -

 

[bgrafsr]

We have used the P.08 as a service pistol from 1943 to 1961(they were actually byf 42 P.08 Mausers that were delivered to us instead instead of the German Army) as the main sidearm, and as a secondary sidearm up to 1975, after we adopted the P.38 in 1961.

Our own defense industries(now gone I'm afraid) used a 115 grs(7,45 grams) bullet that was tailored for the P.08 and was NATO certified. They were of excellent quality.

Still got a box left from a 1999 lot .

I burned thousands of these things.

Now why would you burn them, rather than shoot them?

 

[Kurusu]

first procurement
5000 1906 models for royal army
1000 model 1906 for royal navy
second procurement for Republic navy
1000 model 1906
only 564 for GNR by Mauser -

first Savage order was shipped before WWI 9 12/23/16 + 1/10/17 not between the wars -
total purchase 1,150 units all procured by Direccao Material de Guerra Marinha for both navy + army use in 7.65 -

Your numbers for the Navy Lugers are doubled. There was only on contract for the Navy. The problem was there was a revolution that ended the Monarchy when only roughly half the contract have been delivered.

I never said the Savage contract was from between the wars. I said the Savage pistols were in use by the Army between the wars. You think they throw them away after the war?

Do you know the size of this Country?

That's way too many guns. The Army bought 3500 pistols not 5000. There were not that many officcers in the Army and the Navy combined at the time.