Erma Werke 380 Baby Luger

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Anyone have any person experience with one of these? My LGS has one for cheap in decent condition. I tried to take pictures but my cell phone has a crappy camera being that the phone is roughly 6 years old! Anything I should look for? Seems like a neat little pistol.

James
 
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KGP model or something like that,,,
The frame is a zinc alloy casting (also used on the .22cal version).
The 380 pistols used to show up w/cracked frames quite often and had reliability problems. Lots of complaints of feeding and ejection problems. Worked best with FMJ ammo. There wasn't alot you could do with them to improve them in the reliability dept.

The firing pins broke quite often,,,actually a lot of the parts including the toggle seem to break on these.
Some are marked 'Beeman',,just the importer (the air gun folks). Still the same Erma made pistol but theirs had walnut grips instead of plastic and maybe a slightly different bbl length.

I wouldn't stake my life on one,,but if I did have one, I'd shoot only standard FMJ ammo in it hoping for the best from the frame strength,,no super-duper velocity performance ammo in other words.

Neat little pistols,,they sold well at first especially in .22 cal. But the flimsy components and jamming problems quickly gave them a bad name.
Collectors will pay a decent price for a NIB specimen just to have to show along with their pristine Lugers.
 
Is there two different types? This one was imported from some place in Miami Florida. It is made in Germany not West Germany. I did not remember seeing Beeman on the gun but I do believe it is a KGP 68A.
 
Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask.:D A little history about them.

Erma-Werke KGP-69 Luger


As for function I'm not sure I heard of cracks as they had a lot of pot metal. Same as with their M1 carbines. Erma Werke

They do look OK for what they are.
 
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I had one years ago. Neat little pistol but a jam-o-matic for sure.
I would NOT recommend it for SD.
 
please give us a range report. Had a buddy/reloading mentor that had one or a while. He used to brag he could anything to run. The .380 Luger was his waterloo.

Good luck with yours
 
I'm hoping it will not be problematic. What I can tell you is the magazine follower and spring do not operate smoothly. I took it apart and cleaned it but I guess it is just the design of the magazine. Maybe that is why people have jams.

James
 
The Erma .380 was the first pistol I ever purchased, at the same moment as a Ruger MKII with 6 7/8 Tgt. bbl. So, one well thought out and wise purchase (as I still use that Ruger MKII today, and it's always been an excellent pistol) and one emotion-charged first-time-buyer "gee that's neat" not-so-wise purchase!

I owned that Erma for probably 20-25 years. I ran maybe 2 or 3 boxes of shells through it. I only ever tried FMJ, as I'd never considered it as a defensive pistol, for the following reasons: 1) the plastic grips had a huge thumb rest on the left panel which made for a nice grip, but made it virtually impossible for your right thumb to engage the mag release, 2) the sights were authentic to the original Lugers...minimal, 3) the magazine only held 5 rounds, 4) it was virtually impossible to load more than 1 round into the magazine without the included loading tool, 5) the safety was very stiff, the lever was small and difficult to manipulate, and it moved in the wrong direction, 6) if you opted to forgo the safety by carrying with an empty chamber, you were left trying to manipulate that toggle action (rather tricky under stress with sweaty hands), and now only had 5 rounds.

So, I never bothered to concern myself with whether or not it would feed HPs. FWIW, it never jammed or in any way malfunctioned on me. Despite the sights, it was quite accurate too. I remember firing it with my Father, we were shooting at milk jugs at about 10 yards, and it was too easy. So, we started aiming at the lids on the milk jugs, and we found we could consistently shoot the lids (from the side, about a 1/4" high target, at best) right off of the jugs. We were both impressed.

Still, I always had a soft spot in my heart for that little pistol. It pointed like an extension of my finger, and fit in my hand like a velvet glove. The fit and finish (at least on mine) was superb. It was kept nestled securely in its original box, with the original price tag ($169.00), all the original paperwork and hang tag, the mag loading tool, and a neat little "Erma" stick pin that came with it. It was absolutely pristine, ANIB.

Then, one day I decided I really had no need for the .380 cartridge any longer. I sold my Sig P230 (which I now sorta regret), my Grendel P-10 (it worked fine...but I don't really regret selling it), and then, my dear little Erma. I made some money on it, but now, looking back...I feel as if I let it go too cheaply, seeing as it was absolutely immaculate. The last .380 I needed to sell was my Colt GM. Before I managed to rid myself of it, I ended up finding a good deal on a PPK, then a PPK/S, then a HSC, another Grendel, a CZ83...etc, etc. Now I have more .380s than I ever had before...and I regret selling that Erma. I know I'll never find another one in the condition mine was in (at least, not for a price that I'd want to pay!)

Your loading problems with that magazine may be because you don't have the tool. It wasn't anything complicated, just a little "T" shaped tool that fit over the plastic button on the mag follower to pull it down and make the loading of rounds easier. It shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate something...just make sure you don't damage that magazine, they're not easy to find.

Tim
 
Very good info! I have not shot it yet and I bought it to shoot and collect. I cannot see myself using it as a defense pistol. I would love to have an original Luger but prices are a little too high. I collect C&R guns but mostly stick to rifles. What did you use for ammo? What worked the best?

Thanks, James
 
I'm afraid I can't tell you what I used for ammo. It was too many years ago, and I just can't recall. I believe this was before I'd discovered S&B, my guess would be it was most likely Winchester white box. I was probably buying the cheapest ammo I could find at that moment.

That brings to mind another potential reliability issue people may have had with this piece. I believe that most European .380 is loaded a bit "hotter" than U.S. manufactured ammo, and most of their pistols are designed around those specs. Which means that, oftentimes, Euro made pistols may not function as reliably with U.S. made ammo as they will with Euro-produced ammo. Additionally, the "toggle" action of the Luger requires a pretty good little kick, I'm thinking it probably doesn't respond well to even slightly under-powered ammo. With that in mind, I would think that S&B (Sellier & Bellot) would be a good ammo choice to try.

If I were you, I'd not field-strip it unless absolutely necessary. I only took my down once, and it wasn't fun reassembling it.

Best of luck with your Erma! Enjoy!!!

Tim

P.S. I see you're in Binghamton. I was stationed in Rome, NY when I purchased this Erma. One of my favorite gun shops of all time. I'm not sure of the name of the shop, but it was owned by a local police officer, whose name was Franny (Frannie?) He was a really nice guy, and he had built the shop himself. It was made of logs, and it stood at the end of the drive from his A-frame house. This was out in the country, outside of Rome, I believe perhaps near Westernville.
 
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I took the gun fully apart and it was easy. I fully cleaned and lubed it up. Surprisingly it was not that dirty. S&B you say? I will try the stuff I have now and see how that works.

Rome NY is roughly 2 hours north of me so I have no idea of the shop you are talking about. I think I may have a chance to shoot it this week. I have a few different brands of ammo that I can try. Will post up results.

James
 
Ahhh...you must be better than I was. Of course, in my defense, I was much younger then, and not nearly as experienced with disassembling and reassembling firearms. All I recall is that, at the time...it was a pain! I'm glad your experience was better than mine!

I would definitely say to try whatever .380 ammo you have on hand. No point in searching for something else, what you've got may work just fine. And since the gun is now good & clean and well lubed...I'd say things could go well.

Best of luck!
Tim
 
The firing pin seems kind of weak but Numrich is all out of them. I guess I will try Ebay. Thanks for the heads up.

James
 
I don't think I got mine cheap or even in good condition. But here it is.
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I was tempted to buy one when they were on the market in the early 1970s, but didn't. I do remember some less-than-enthusiastic articles written about it in the gunmags of the time, maybe that's why I didn't buy one. I think the KGP meant something like "Knee-Action Pistol" in German. I think that grip thumb rest had something to do with importation, back when BATF used some kind of point system to determine if a gun could be imported.
 
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