Ever have a knife that just NOT want to sharpen?

[steelslaver]

I have a LOT of D2. I bought 9 12" x39" pieces of high quality German D2 of a guy who changed plans/ I had 2 sheets cut into a drop point hunter design/ Those are all gone. I kept 2 for myself. Hard to get sharp, but stay that way. I used on to dress 2 elk and 5 deer and you could still cut the dates out of a tag with it. I heat it to 1850f inside stainless steel packet for 30 minutes in a digitally controlled oven and then clamp them between 2 large chilled aluminum plates. then into a solution of acetone and dry ice for a hour before I give them 2 2 hour tempers at 400f. They come out at about 61-62 RC. It is not an easy steel to HT right. It is also difficult to get highly polished because when you sand it above 400 a few carbides always come out of the surface and put scratches on it. It is very wear resistant and hard to sharpen. It is also pretty easy to snap. I also have a stack of 5160 flt bar I use for hard use blades, A stack of 15N20 head saw blades and lots of 1095 and W2 I use to make Damascus. I am currently working with a 2" wide 18" long feather pattern cutlass blade that will get a fossil walrus ivory handle.

 

[Junkenstien]

The old buck knives are 440c as are some of the gerbers its harder than arkansas and the gray oil stones the orange aluminum oxide stones will work if you dont have diamonds.Think they changed to a softer steel in 85 because it was so hard to sharpen.

 

[Lowa]

The only knives I can't put an edge on are Chinese $1 kitchen knives.

Most steels are incapable of being harder than 60 Rockwell. We design steels specifically to be able to do this or better. Many steels that can reach 60hrc do not function well for many tools at that hardness. You will typically find softer steels at 55-58. Unless you have boutique steel, you aren't hitting 61hrc or higher and you aren't going to have trouble grinding off steel.

Hard steel means it chips and snaps instead of bending or rolling. Soft steel means that it rolls and bends instead.

If a blade isn't heat treated properly or at all, it cannot be sharpened. The heat treatment changes the physical property of the steel. Even what we now consider poor, cheap steels should take and hold a relatively good edge.

A knife blade will be sharp and remain sharp because it has carbides, chunks that are harder than the steel itself. Iron carbides are soft, chromium are less soft, and vanadium, niobium, or other carbides are much harder.

If your knife isn't taking an edge, you have one of three problems. It is NOT heat treated, the heat treatment was messed up, including grinding the edge overheating the steel into ****, or you are building up a burr that you aren't taking off by stropping.

 

[ruger 22]

I use the sharpener that comes with a home carving set. It is that big long steel stick that most of us ignore. When I worked at restaurants during summers as a student we used the knives daily and sharpened them daily. My experience has been that very few knives hold an edge for a long time and most need sharpening often.

 

[steelslaver]

You can get a blade with no carbides sharper than one with carbides. W2 is almost pure iron with about 1% carbon very similar to 1095, Their specs over lap. Because of this it can be very fine grained and hard if heat treated right and be wicked sharp. Hair topping sharp where you can cut the hair on your arm while holding it slightly off your skin. You will spend a lot of time getting it that sharp and finish with a 4000-6000 grit stone. It will not stay that sharp. Yet many great Chef knifes are made from it. Because you can get a very keen edge easily, you just need to touch them up often like ruger22 mentioned

Once you go to using steels that have vanadium, tungsten and the like excess carbon bonds with those and form carbides, which are extremely hard. BUT, those carbides are relatively large compared the normal sized steel grain and so prevent that extremely fine grain and extremely fine edge. They do not make razor blades with it. They do make industrial steel cutting too;ls with it. A steel shear blade is D2 as are press brake dies and punch press dies. Before carbide inserts most lathe tools and end mills were M4

LOWA's point about the heat treat is oh so true. I can spend $50 a piece of the highest quality Carpenter CPM S90V steel. Make it into the perfect shape and design and it I blow the heat treat it will be a miserable blade.

One of the advantages of only heat treating one or a few at a time is they all get attention during that critical phase.

 

[Smoke]

I have a Bucklite from around the mid 80's. It is some super hard stainless and no natural stone will return an edge to it. Bring on the diamond stones and tada, new fine edge. I just use the medium and fine stones, but I do own the course and extra fine stones also.
Ivan

I also use a diamond stone for my Bucklite I bought back in early eighties.

I have a Bucklite Model 422 that I recently bought on EBay, it was made in 1990 that sharpens right up on my WorkSharp Field Sharpener.

I have an Ontario Survival Knife that won't take an edge to save its life.

 

[Lowa]

You can get a blade with no carbides sharper than one with carbides. W2 is almost pure iron with about 1% carbon very similar to 1095, Their specs over lap. Because of this it can be very fine grained and hard if heat treated right and be wicked sharp. Hair topping sharp where you can cut the hair on your arm while holding it slightly off your skin. You will spend a lot of time getting it that sharp and finish with a 4000-6000 grit stone. It will not stay that sharp. Yet many great Chef knifes are made from it. Because you can get a very keen edge easily, you just need to touch them up often like ruger22 mentioned

Once you go to using steels that have vanadium, tungsten and the like excess carbon bonds with those and form carbides, which are extremely hard. BUT, those carbides are relatively large compared the normal sized steel grain and so prevent that extremely fine grain and extremely fine edge. They do not make razor blades with it. They do make industrial steel cutting too;ls with it. A steel shear blade is D2 as are press brake dies and punch press dies. Before carbide inserts most lathe tools and end mills were M4

LOWA's point about the heat treat is oh so true. I can spend $50 a piece of the highest quality Carpenter CPM S90V steel. Make it into the perfect shape and design and it I blow the heat treat it will be a miserable blade.

One of the advantages of only heat treating one or a few at a time is they all get attention during that critical phase.

W2 is a very boutique steel. For knife snobs, all we buy are steels we can name and explain all the the properties for.

We are reaching a point where all knives will be made of modern super steels or special boutique stuff, or will be made of chinesium.

I'd quote only the portion I want, but that seems hard.

 

[steelslaver]

W2 is a very boutique steel????

W2 has been around forever. It and 1095 are some of the most common knife steels in history. Lots of 1095 could also be called W2 as their specs overlap. The famous KBAR was 1095 Until the advent of stainless tool steels they were the most common of knife steels. I have a bunch of 1095 W1 and W2. They are about the simplest of all tool steels.

1095
Iron 98.38-98.8 Carbon 0.90 - 1.03 Sulfur ≤ 0.050 Phosphorus ≤ 0.040 Manganese 0.30 - 0.50

W2 Iron 98%+- Carbon .85-1.25 Sulfur <0.020 Phosphorus <0.02 Manganese 0.10 - 0.40

W1 isn't much different than 1095 or W2. But might have some moly and

I can keep all 3 well over 60 RC after 2 400f tempers

A Nickols file is 1095 as quenched

 

[LoadedRound]

Hi growr.

You might give this a try. Clamp it up in your Lansky. Lay the angle back to 15 deg. Cut it back with the coarse stone.

Now start over with the coarse stone at 25 deg. and work on it from there. I might be wasting your time, but I've had this work a couple of times. Good Luck

 

[Lowa]

W2 is a very boutique steel????

W2 has been around forever. It and 1095 are some of the most common knife steels in history. Lots of 1095 could also be called W2 as their specs overlap. The famous KBAR was 1095 Until the advent of stainless tool steels they were the most common of knife steels. I have a bunch of 1095 W1 and W2. They are about the simplest of all tool steels.

1095
Iron 98.38-98.8 Carbon 0.90 - 1.03 Sulfur ≤ 0.050 Phosphorus ≤ 0.040 Manganese 0.30 - 0.50

W2 Iron 98%+- Carbon .85-1.25 Sulfur <0.020 Phosphorus <0.02 Manganese 0.10 - 0.40

W1 isn't much different than 1095 or W2. But might have some moly and

I can keep all 3 well over 60 RC after 2 400f tempers

A Nickols file is 1095 as quenched

Making me quote txt walls...

Yes, boutique. Wheels and car frames used to be made of wood. You can still buy a Morgan, which are nice cars. They are boutique.

Nobody is using w2 anymore. The only people that use 1095 are companies that emphasize the simple durability of carbon steels. I can go on the average knife website and find you 200 knives in any steel before I find one in either w2 or 1095 unless that 1095 is for what are now becoming premium outdoors fixed blades.

Most knives, even cheap ones are going for the cheap efficient stainless steels that depend on chromium carbides. Even kabar won't use common 1095 for their full tang knives. Esee are over $100 and OKC moved to 1075.

You can get your 1095 to 60 hrc. You do that. Then baton it through logs to start a fire in the rain. You CAN run onto a highway at noon. You shouldn't. Again, why we make new steels specifically to be run at 60hrc.

Maybe I'm just too young, but the future is now and W2 is boutique. Go buy some magnacut and a coal powered car.

 

[Flattop5]

I solved that problem long ago:

I got a Spyderco Sharpmaker (with the V-shaped "sticks" in the holder).

Then, I bought some diamond stones (sticks) for it.

No problems anymore. NONE. Even hard blades take an edge quickly. Even those German hunting knives (hard steel!) sharpen up quickly.

Yes, diamond stones are kind of pricey, but, once you have them, no problem. Easy job. Just keep the knife blade at a steady 90 degrees from the table, edge down, for each stroke, and you'll have a good edge quickly.



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[DWalt]

I have a pocket knife with about a 3" blade. It is sharpening-proof using a conventional sharpening stone or a file. I once sharpened it with a Dremel tool with an abrasive cutoff disc, and that worked.

 

[Gene L]

Some steel is harder than others, but I've never seen one that wouldn't sharpen...if I do my part, that is. I've come to the conclusion that sharpening a knife is not a skill that's inherited. It takes a steady hand and repeatable hand and wrist actions, and it only takes a couple of miss-strokes to curl the fine edge over and mess up your job. By hand and with a Japanese Water Stone, it takes a while and a lot of patience to get a good edge on a knife.

 

[Flattop5]

Some steel is harder than others, but I've never seen one that wouldn't sharpen...if I do my part, that is. I've come to the conclusion that sharpening a knife is not a skill that's inherited. It takes a steady hand and repeatable hand and wrist actions, and it only takes a couple of miss-strokes to curl the fine edge over and mess up your job. By hand and with a Japanese Water Stone, it takes a while and a lot of patience to get a good edge on a knife.

I can't use a stone because I can't keep the same angle each stroke. It's nearly impossible. Hence the sticks. Keep the blade "spine up/edge down" and you really can't go wrong. No tipping left or right, and you've got it.




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