Expert opinions needed

[Bellzy]

I'm trying to put together what amounts to 4 different SD loads.

This is a list of the components that I have:
Bullets) 125gr Speer gold dot
158gr Hornady XTP

Powders) Power Pistol
Bullseye
2400

Primers) Federal #200

Cases) PMC twice fired

these loads will be use in either a Ruger SP101 w/2.25" barrel or a S&W model 19 w/2.5" barrel

My goal is to develope two loads for each bullet weight, one full house and the other closer to .38 +p pressures. The only varible is wich powder and what volume to use for each load. The reason I want to develope different loads is two will be for when I plan on being inside for most of the day and the other two are for outside use.
So, if you guys could voice your opinions it would be appreciated

 

[Skip Sackett]

I guess I qualify as an "EXPERT". When you dissect the word you get "ex" and "spurt".

Ex: means something that used to be and spurt is a drip under pressure, so I qualify being a former drip under pressure! (Just a little humor. I know, very little! )

At any rate, the 125gr load in either caliber inside the house, especially if there are other folks there with you and the heavier ones for external use.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I hope you won't take my response to be a critical one as that's not the intent.

I notice from reading some of the forum posts that many attempt to be very clever by using different loads under what's perceived to be different circumstances.If one will step back and look at this,it may be seen as something more fanciful than real.

If a man needs to be stopped,he needs to be stopped whether inside or out.For every instance of potential excess penetration,there is also a potential for insufficient penetration,inside or out.

The only practical reason for choosing a milder load for indoors (that I can see)is a reduction in blast and/or flash.It all sounds very logical however I've fired indoors and find the issue of blast and flash to be exaggerated and overrated.

For me,there is absolutely no difference in my choice for either indoors or out.

 

[Bellzy]

Canoe on the Yukon,
I'm not insulted by your response, after all I did ask for opinions.

I am concerned about the report. I know that the idea is to have as much energy delivered as possible but I would also like to be able to answer any questions the police might have after the incident. I have shot .357s outside with no hearing protection and it left a lasting impression to say
the least, I don't even want to know what it would be like inside.

The noise factor isn't the only reason I ask. I'm also interested in others views about which would be a more efficient use of the powders listed.

 

[David Sinko]

I have found that heavy charges of 2400 give very disappointing velocities out of my short SP-101. It might work well in a long barrel, but not a short one. I never tried Power Pistol in the .38 Special but I have found it gives highest velocity in 9mm and .45 ACP revolvers.

Dave Sinko

 

[OKFC05]

I'm with David on dropping the 2400 in short barrels. I'd also use the Speer SB 135gr bullet from a stub rather than the 125gr. The SB will work at any velocity you're going to get, not so sure about the 125 gr at around 850fps.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

There are those who think that the slower powders are not good in the shorter barrels but that assertion depends on what one finds to be "good".

If the issue is blast and or flash,the slower powders produce more of this in the shorter tubes than when using the faster powders.That being said,the slower powders achieve higher velocities even in the snubbies.Many have assumed otherwise but it's been demonstrated again and again.

If blast and or flash define the load/gun combination as being bad,that is a negative aspect of the slower powders.If velocity is the goal,the slower powders are ahead.

If someone is trying to get reduced loads from the slower powders,they should choose a faster powder.The slower one's work best when volume and pressure are on the high side.

I've used 2400 with 125 gr bullets in the 357 snubby with good velocity achieved and much prefer 296 which is even slower.

 

[tops]

I agree that it takes the same power to kill man or beast whether it is inside or outside. A loud noise or bright flash will be the last thing on my mind if I am being threatened. My first concern will be to stop the threat and I will deal with the rest later. I use 158 gr. cast bullet and 15 gr. 2400 for .357. A 2 1/2 M19 gets over 1200 fps and a 6 in Python gets over 1400 fps. That may not be the best load in the world but it is the best I have ever used. Larry

 

[canoe on the yukon]

tops,

That load is first rate.I try to stay out of the arguments about this weight vs that or JHP vs cast,etc,etc......but the cast 158 backed by 15.0 gr of 2400 is a good one.

 

[BUFF]

In the aftermath of a shooting, you DON'T WANT TO TALK TO THE POLICE RIGHT THEN AND THERE! You do want to converse with your criminal lawyer first.

The body works in strange ways during a fight. The reports may only be heard by you as "pop...pop...pop." Of the several fellow officers I know that have had gunfights inside, none of them reported much temporary hearing loss and none of them had any permanent damage. Yet, I fired one round of .357 from a 2-1/2 inch snub while inside a pickup truck-mounted camper and was deaf for the whole next day with ringing that took several more days to go away!

Work up a serious load and maybe a lighter practice load if wear on your gun is a concern.

 

[acl864]

....................

 

[Skip Sackett]

Andy,
How does Universal meter? I have heard it is a good replacement for Unique. How do you charge your cases?

I think other folks would like to know too!

 

[acl864]

Andy,
How does Universal meter? I have heard it is a good replacement for Unique. How do you charge your cases?

I think other folks would like to know too!

I use a RCBS Uniflow and for me Universal does meter better than Unique. I just got a RCBS Little Dandy measure about a month ago and haven't used it with the Universal yet but would expect good results. The Universal is very close to Unique both in burn rate and charge weights. They aren't interchangable but if you have good Unique loads you can develop similar loads for Universal.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I use a RCBS Uniflow and for me Universal does meter better than Unique. I just got a RCBS Little Dandy measure about a month ago and haven't used it with the Universal yet but would expect good results. The Universal is very close to Unique both in burn rate and charge weights. They aren't interchangable but if you have good Unique loads you can develop similar loads for Universal.

Andy,
Have you used it with jacketed bullets too? How does it burn? With lead I suppose there is some smoke but probably not as bad as Unique. You said that you can work up Universal loads and get similar results to Unique. What calibers have you used Universal in?

I think that powder needs to be next on the "gotta try it list". I may need some help!

 

[Skip Sackett]

A friend of mine did that once. Now all he says is: "HUH?"

Canoe on the Yukon,
I'm not insulted by your response, after all I did ask for opinions.

I am concerned about the report. I know that the idea is to have as much energy delivered as possible but I would also like to be able to answer any questions the police might have after the incident. I have shot .357s outside with no hearing protection and it left a lasting impression to say
the least, I don't even want to know what it would be like inside.

The noise factor isn't the only reason I ask. I'm also interested in others views about which would be a more efficient use of the powders listed.

Bell,
I have the same problem when I shoot full power loads in the 357Mag. It is a much higher pitch, or so it would seem, than say a 44Mag. I can shoot them all day long and not get "sore" ears. One shot from a 158gr LSWC doing 1400fps from the M586 6" and I'm done for all day!

Like the title suggests, a friend of mine shot a full power 357Mag inside a barn once trying to get a pesky groundhog. He missed but was quite sure he would never do that again even if the situation presented itself!

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I was once forced to shoot inside a living room and I never even heard the shot.As it happens,it was a full power load from a 357 mag with a four inch barrel.Some of the internet forum concerns leave me with a sense of reading that which is more imaginary than real.I would much rather survive than worry about a ringing in my ears.As for those who think a low velocity 38 is wonderful,to each his own.It's your opinion and your hide.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Good point.

I was once forced to shoot inside a living room and I never even heard the shot.As it happens,it was a full power load from a 357 mag with a four inch barrel.Some of the internet forum concerns leave me with a sense of reading that which is more imaginary than real.I would much rather survive than worry about a ringing in my ears.As for those who think a low velocity 38 is wonderful,to each his own.It's your opinion and your hide.

canoe,
You bring up a valid point. Our body must "know" or respond to protect itself in certain situations. In all the years of hunting small game, I can't ever seem to remember my ears ringing afterwards.

I know I certainly wouldn't load specially for it not to happen. I'd just get a different caliber!

 

[acl864]

I've also used the Universal in 9x18 Makarov and 38 Special. I've got 30-30 WCF with cast bullets with Universal on my "to do" list.

 

[Bellzy]

I want to thank everyone for their responses. I went ahead and loaded up 12 rounds of 158gr JHPs with 14.8gr of 2400 behind it. that should hold me over until I can do a little more research. What I really need is a chronograph so I don't have to guess at velocities.

Once again, thanks