As usual, I'm flabbergasted...Has anyone seen my jawbone?...It's on the floor here somewhere...
...Ben
...Ben
Extraordinary Engraved Pre-27 - with Provenance
- Thread starter RKmesa
- Start date
That may be the most beautiful engraved revolver I have ever seen. Thank you for sharing.
Richard, A truly magnificent masterpiece! I really like the lifelike animal scenes and the ivory grips! Scroll work isn't bad either! I would bet this is the next gun for a very special case! Congrats!
Bob
Bob
Green Frog
Member
Richard, once again I find the “Like” button to be way too little. We need an “Adore” or a “Lust After” button to be used only in cases like this. The Linds had a total tour de force with this one.
Froggie
Froggie
WOW
Nicest engraved revolver I've ever seen,or will see.
Thankyou for the great pics and sharing with us!
Nicest engraved revolver I've ever seen,or will see.
Thankyou for the great pics and sharing with us!
Pizza Bob
Member
Wow! Just wow!
I have learned to put on a bib before opening any of RKmesa's threads - glad I did this time, I can't afford another keyboard.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
I have learned to put on a bib before opening any of RKmesa's threads - glad I did this time, I can't afford another keyboard.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
Very Nice!
The pics make it look like a French Grey finish at times. The high gloss polish cylinder flutes would deny that as French Grey is (usually) a somewhat dull finish.
But there are several ways of applying what many call a French Grey.
Acid and some acidic PH chemicals are generally used.
'Coin Finish' is another term often used for the silvery final finish. Often a plating of nickel in one form or another. There are a variety of tones of plating available in the different metals.
Antique tone is one used often and cuts the bling glare down and places the darker contrast into the incised cuts and relief engraving.
A simple touch with a toothpick with cold blue on the tip to a hidden spot will tell if the metal is nickel plated in any form or not.
The plating will resist the cold blue. At most just a very slight tarnish will result and can be swiped away or removed with a soft erasure.
If the metal is just French Grey'd using acid or something like Ferric Chloride, there is nothing actually coating the surface and the cold blue will 'take' ,,very well actually!
Some French Grey pieces are further colored with a very dilute soln of cold blue.
A few drops of the cold blue in plain water, a container big enough to hold the actual gun part submerged.
Place the clean degreased part right into the water and the weak soln will impart a very slight pale blue hue to the plain already grey surfaces.
At the same time it will darken any engraving cuts and relief cut backgrounds, punch work to a very dark, near black color.
It works slowly, agitation with a soft artist brush works well to help it along. No need to hurry. When you are satisfied, pull it out and dry it off.
Repeat if not satisfied
Your finishng tip for the day..
The engraving here looks right off of a fine German/Austrian hunting rifle or Drilling.
The SidePlate scene is exceptional.
The shading done mostly with a single point graver and done in te style that mimics a pencil drawing artist in that they use cross hatch lines to get shadow. Closer together and more of them, the darker the effect.
No lines at all, or very few and very lightly cut reveals a bright area or one with nearly no shadow/color.
Light & shadow,,the basics of image
The only 'possible' engraver mark I can see is on the left side plate, the Bear scene.
You have to enlarge it greatly to see it and even then it may only be a few simple chisel marks together looking like the letter 'E'.
Right along the arc edge of the grip panel about midway, I see what looks to be a capital 'E' in the liner tool done background.
Betw the rock formation(?) to the right of the bear and the edge of the grip panel.
Might be nothing.
Hopefully this pic scan will repost in it's enlarged form to show it.
You may have to enlarge the pic anyway to see it..
The engraver used a Liner tool for the background removal around the scroll work.
Then changed to a 'matting punch' to do the work around the animals.
The matting punch used was not a single point punch, but rather a tool of a small square face, the face then cut with several lines at 90* to eachother to form points. About 4 points x 4 points.
It might not sound like a lot, but with these small multi piot punches an area can be matted very quickly as opposed to using a single point tool.
The single point tool is still used for getting into the corners and small areas where the larger multi point tool won't fit and would spoil the looks of the work by over stamping the borders and scroll lines if attempted.
A Liner Tool is also used as a last cut around the animal figure in most instances to leave a dark portrait type outline of the figure.
The figure stands out when the finish is applied as the cut line does not reflect much light and appears dark, nearly black.
Contrast again in getting the figures to appear lifelike.
The eyes of the animals are especially well done to create wildlife effect.
Lots of creatures done in engraving are left with a simple center punch dot for an eye. It can get by and actually looks OK a lot of the time.
But again the dark and light contrast done here really catches your eye!
The pics make it look like a French Grey finish at times. The high gloss polish cylinder flutes would deny that as French Grey is (usually) a somewhat dull finish.
But there are several ways of applying what many call a French Grey.
Acid and some acidic PH chemicals are generally used.
'Coin Finish' is another term often used for the silvery final finish. Often a plating of nickel in one form or another. There are a variety of tones of plating available in the different metals.
Antique tone is one used often and cuts the bling glare down and places the darker contrast into the incised cuts and relief engraving.
A simple touch with a toothpick with cold blue on the tip to a hidden spot will tell if the metal is nickel plated in any form or not.
The plating will resist the cold blue. At most just a very slight tarnish will result and can be swiped away or removed with a soft erasure.
If the metal is just French Grey'd using acid or something like Ferric Chloride, there is nothing actually coating the surface and the cold blue will 'take' ,,very well actually!
Some French Grey pieces are further colored with a very dilute soln of cold blue.
A few drops of the cold blue in plain water, a container big enough to hold the actual gun part submerged.
Place the clean degreased part right into the water and the weak soln will impart a very slight pale blue hue to the plain already grey surfaces.
At the same time it will darken any engraving cuts and relief cut backgrounds, punch work to a very dark, near black color.
It works slowly, agitation with a soft artist brush works well to help it along. No need to hurry. When you are satisfied, pull it out and dry it off.
Repeat if not satisfied
Your finishng tip for the day..
The engraving here looks right off of a fine German/Austrian hunting rifle or Drilling.
The SidePlate scene is exceptional.
The shading done mostly with a single point graver and done in te style that mimics a pencil drawing artist in that they use cross hatch lines to get shadow. Closer together and more of them, the darker the effect.
No lines at all, or very few and very lightly cut reveals a bright area or one with nearly no shadow/color.
Light & shadow,,the basics of image
The only 'possible' engraver mark I can see is on the left side plate, the Bear scene.
You have to enlarge it greatly to see it and even then it may only be a few simple chisel marks together looking like the letter 'E'.
Right along the arc edge of the grip panel about midway, I see what looks to be a capital 'E' in the liner tool done background.
Betw the rock formation(?) to the right of the bear and the edge of the grip panel.
Might be nothing.
Hopefully this pic scan will repost in it's enlarged form to show it.
You may have to enlarge the pic anyway to see it..
The engraver used a Liner tool for the background removal around the scroll work.
Then changed to a 'matting punch' to do the work around the animals.
The matting punch used was not a single point punch, but rather a tool of a small square face, the face then cut with several lines at 90* to eachother to form points. About 4 points x 4 points.
It might not sound like a lot, but with these small multi piot punches an area can be matted very quickly as opposed to using a single point tool.
The single point tool is still used for getting into the corners and small areas where the larger multi point tool won't fit and would spoil the looks of the work by over stamping the borders and scroll lines if attempted.
A Liner Tool is also used as a last cut around the animal figure in most instances to leave a dark portrait type outline of the figure.
The figure stands out when the finish is applied as the cut line does not reflect much light and appears dark, nearly black.
Contrast again in getting the figures to appear lifelike.
The eyes of the animals are especially well done to create wildlife effect.
Lots of creatures done in engraving are left with a simple center punch dot for an eye. It can get by and actually looks OK a lot of the time.
But again the dark and light contrast done here really catches your eye!
hdfinder47
Member
So.... how does it shoot?
jk, of course.
The only serious comment I can think to say is: "holy moly, what a superb piece"!
jk, of course.
The only serious comment I can think to say is: "holy moly, what a superb piece"!
Richard, I'm wondering how you store your masterpieces...For instance mine are all in silicone treated socks in the safe...I don't have any engraved guns, but if I had some of the quality you collect, I would probably have each one on a wire stand, the kind with a polymer coated wire in the barrel supporting the gun...I don't think I would want the other surfaces resting on anything else...
...Ben
...Ben
OP
Thank you for your expert analysis. I always love it when you share your engraving insights and expertise with the rest of us. Here are a few photos of the gun with the grips off, one of which shows more information about the engraving shop where the work was done… the others are just more pics of cool engraving.
I think that it is way cool that the artist also engraved the area under the grips.
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The area under the grip ears being engraved is usually a sign that other grips were sometimes installed on the gun, maybe for display or for use.
Service style grips in this instance.
AA White used to do this often on revolvers he engraved with target grips on them. He would sometimes design a border element from the target grip edge that blended in with the scroll work that was underneath it.
So when the Target grips were removed and the designated 'second set' of grips installed (Magnas or Service), the now exposed engraved surfaces would blend nicely w/o heavy border line announcing what was there originally.
Hard to do and make it look good!
The mark under the grip is nice.
A well known 'gunshop' in Frankfurt for generations. Lots of custom work and general 'smithing
Still there AFAIK
../M stands for 'on the Main'. On the Main River.
There's another Frankfurt that is on the Oder River. So the different designation(s).
It was and pretty much still is standard practice for the business name to be marked on the piece rather than the individual engraver that did the work.
That unless the engraver was/is a very well known artist and their signiture mark would bring greater value and notoriety to the shop.
Much of the work was farmed out to freelanse engravers then and now. The same as in the US.
Too expensive to keep engravers in house for just that purpose unless the work load can demand it.
Kind of interesting that the marking is 'Germany' and not 'W.Germany'
A kind of silent protest to the politics of the day I suspect.
Service style grips in this instance.
AA White used to do this often on revolvers he engraved with target grips on them. He would sometimes design a border element from the target grip edge that blended in with the scroll work that was underneath it.
So when the Target grips were removed and the designated 'second set' of grips installed (Magnas or Service), the now exposed engraved surfaces would blend nicely w/o heavy border line announcing what was there originally.
Hard to do and make it look good!
The mark under the grip is nice.
A well known 'gunshop' in Frankfurt for generations. Lots of custom work and general 'smithing
Still there AFAIK
../M stands for 'on the Main'. On the Main River.
There's another Frankfurt that is on the Oder River. So the different designation(s).
It was and pretty much still is standard practice for the business name to be marked on the piece rather than the individual engraver that did the work.
That unless the engraver was/is a very well known artist and their signiture mark would bring greater value and notoriety to the shop.
Much of the work was farmed out to freelanse engravers then and now. The same as in the US.
Too expensive to keep engravers in house for just that purpose unless the work load can demand it.
Kind of interesting that the marking is 'Germany' and not 'W.Germany'
A kind of silent protest to the politics of the day I suspect.
Fixed that for you.
Richard - thank you so much for sharing your treasures with us!
Chip
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The grips are beautifully scrimshawed ivory and the gun has been shot. If you look closely at the photo of Dot Lind and the gun, you will notice that it had a different set of grips on it (a darker set), and a different front sight (looks like a Blanchard Red Ramp) at the time the photo was taken.
I also think if Dot fired the gun in that position, it would wreak havoc on her eardrums and she may even get some burns when the burning powder escapes the barrel cylinder gap.
There are several online posts stating the Linds (and the Topperweins before them) shot the guns sighted backward with mirrors. So even if this photo was posed I bet they did exactly that in their shows. Even with reduced charge loads I bet they became very hard of hearing.
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Jim Watson
Member
The grips are an interesting style, apart from the carving. I have seen a number of older target stocks with that "crease" giving the appearance of a Magna with a filler. I wonder how that got started.
Richard, I know Keith Brown has done some of his wood grips for you in that style. Did you use these grips as a “prototype” for Keith to mimic, or was that a style that he had always made?
Larry
OP
I have to say that what you describe (light and shadow) is part of the reason I love engraving in general, and this piece in particular. I do a bit of portrait sketching with pencils and occasionally in pen. Here are a few pencil sketches I’ve done in one of my journals (when things around me got boring)…
I have no idea how they do it with hammer and chisel on metal!!! I stand in awe.
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I have found myself coveting several of your firearms, Richard. Now I learn you are also a skilled artist.
I’m not sure, but I think I might hate you just a bit.
I’m not sure, but I think I might hate you just a bit.
Richard, those are amazing pieces of art. We love your engraved guns but I'd really like to see more of your art too.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
The engraving is stunning. I can't imagine the talent needed for such a feat. Often, I can't even read my own handwriting. To think of someone executing that level of artistry and detail in metal is beyond me. Thanks for sharing with us.
Interesting that the shop is may still be in operation. With the German penchant for recordkeeping, I expect their archives would have further information about the craftsmen who did the work. Whether they would share that information, and at what cost, might be worth pursuing.
Interesting that the shop is may still be in operation. With the German penchant for recordkeeping, I expect their archives would have further information about the craftsmen who did the work. Whether they would share that information, and at what cost, might be worth pursuing.
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