Factors in Surviving Gunfights

[WR Moore]

In spite of the 'castle doctrine' law that was passed the same year as Kansas' CCW law, saying in effect that we do not have a duty to retreat from anyplace that we have a lawful right to be, it is still a very good idea to retreat from the scene if you can do so without endangering either yourself or those that you have a duty to protect.

OK, this is long after post #1 but.................I'm not familiar with the specifics of the Kansas CCW law but there seems to be an issue with terminology here, at least in many/most states. This might seem nit-picking, but there can be a serious difference here.

"Castle Doctrine" typically refers to having no duty to retreat in the face of a threat within the home or the curtiliage (property immediately surrounding the home) thereof.

Keeping prosecutors with an axe to grind about the many and varied exceptions to the duty to retreat from a threat in public and/or fantasies about what constituted a "reasonable and safe alternative" to the use of deadly force resulted in the passage of "stand your ground" (in a public place) laws in many states.

 

[Muss Muggins]

When firing an Airsoft pistol at a teenager who is not really trying to rob you and also paid $25 for an hour to run around an abandoned warehouse to scream and have fun before going for ice cream or beer shatters your eardrums, gives you tinnitus forever, and destroys everything next to you when the vapid teenager shoots at you with a real pistol and misses, give me a call. Airsoft is in no way the closest thing to an actual gunfight one can experience. I have come to believe you are a 16 year old troll living in your grandmother's basement. #ChangeMyMind

Go play CQB Airsoft. If you don't know what that is, google up some youtube videos. It is the best training money can't buy, and will be a humbling experience to all those who think they're shooters. Running around in a semi-lit building with a bunch of reckless teenagers trying to kill you simply can't be simulated. It is the closest thing to actual gunfights you will experience. It certainly changed my thinking.

 

[Goldstar225]

When firing an Airsoft pistol at a teenager who is not really trying to rob you and also paid $25 for an hour to run around an abandoned warehouse to scream and have fun before going for ice cream or beer shatters your eardrums, gives you tinnitus forever, and destroys everything next to you when the vapid teenager shoots at you with a real pistol and misses, give me a call. Airsoft is in no way the closest thing to an actual gunfight one can experience. I have come to believe you are a 16 year old troll living in your grandmother's basement. #ChangeMyMind

I have to agree with Muss both in his observations on airsoft and your background. Those "playing" with airsoft can be reckless as there are no serious consequences for failure.

Univibe you come up with some strange positions that lead me to think that your sum total of experience is video games, air soft, and utube. Please enlighten me on your background.

 

[jscott]

Working Miami-Dade Homicide, while assigned to ATF, we would do the air soft training thing. It was fun and some techniques could be learned. BUT. Having been in a toe to toe gunfight and lived, after being behind in the draw, no air soft games can come close to the real deal.

 

[SRT]

Gun fight survival involves surviving not only 1) the fight, but 2) the criminal investigation, and 3) the civil suit that routinely follows.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Univibe, no snarkasm or piling-on intended. You seem to be intelligent as you have shown that you know your way around the written word but I have to wonder why you choose not to address questions to or charges leveled at you?

A little honesty would go a long way in establishing some measure of credibility. Otherwise folks are going to hit the "ignore" button on you.

Tone down the rhetoric and come swim with the rest of us salmon.

If nothing else we are a forgiving bunch.

 

[StakeOut]

A lot of nonsense in this thread.

 

[gerhard1]

A lot of nonsense in this thread.

Would you care to point out some specifics?

 

[Dusty Miller]

John Farnam philosophy:
Don't go to stupid places
Don't hang out with stupid people
Don't do stupid things

And don't forget John Wayne's wisdom: Life is tough, it's tougher when you're stupid!

 

[John Patrick]

I think being ready, able and willing to kill a human being who is a threat is rare.

Full commitment to killing a threat - and killing the threat is the only sure way to end the threat - has to be the mind set.

Escaping a threat is great in theory, but it is counter to killing the threat.

If you gotta draw, you gotta kill, or give it your best effort, imo.

If your efforts to kill lead to an incapacitated perp, ok, but dead is no threat.

But what the heck do I know? Never been there.

I fully agree with avoiding the situation as best as possible, but even your best efforts can be countered by the one or more perps who decide your neighborhood is ripe.

 

[Dusty Miller]

Stay out of Chicago period.

 

[old tanker]

Do not overlook the fact that most often the bad guy has the initiative. It is his greatest advantage. He picks the time and place. He selects the victim, likely one he believes he can easily overwhelm or intimidate.

Your response, whatever it be, is, by definition, reactive. Even on high alert, he has you by a second or two. Something to ponder when considering John Farnam's advice on stupid people and stupid places.

 

[BE Mike]

Do not overlook the fact that most often the bad guy has the initiative. It is his greatest advantage. He picks the time and place. He selects the victim, likely one he believes he can easily overwhelm or intimidate.

Your response, whatever it be, is, by definition, reactive. Even on high alert, he has you by a second or two. Something to ponder when considering John Farnam's advice on stupid people and stupid places.

I just read some "Armed Citizen" incidences in "The American Rifleman". A few were home invasions. The citizens came out on top because they were mentally prepared and had learned enough skill with a firearm to get the job done.