Factory Ivory
- Thread starter iby
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Can I cheat with this one, (Model 3 Russian, Second Model, Commercial Variation) as you already said in another thread it was about the nicest set of ivory stocks you had ever seen. This revolver did not leave the factory with ivory stocks, in the opinion of our esteemed historian Dr Jinks, but was placed on this revolver by the distributor, M W Robinson, about October 1875.
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As an aside which may or may not have anything to do with large frame top-breaks, I was once informed by the good Dr. Jinks the factory did not provide ivory grips for the N frame (the large frame hand ejector)-----at least at the time of the Triple Lock revolvers.
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
I can't recall any Triple locks with Ivory but I would like to see some.
The non medallion walnut grips are some of my favorites
Books
Member
Boulder350
Member
The New Model 3 Frontier shipped 1887 to Spencer, Bartlett & Co in Chicago. The 38 Single Action shipped 1886 to Emilio A Combaluzier in Mexico City. Both have Ivory grips added after shipment from the factory.
The Merwin and Bray or Plant revolver was included in the picture cause I really like it.
The Merwin and Bray or Plant revolver was included in the picture cause I really like it.
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opoefc
US Veteran
The factory did put original ivory stocks on their revolvers, circa 1800- 1910, that I know of, as the records for most S&Ws of that period reflect what guns, by serial number, were manufactured with ivory stocks ( also other materials, like pearl, walnut, hard rubber, etc. ) I've had several pairs of carved ivory stock over the yrs that were carved exactly like the hard rubber type stocks ( cross hatched with the S&W logo in the circle ) but they didn't come to me with the gun, so I don't know if they were aftermarket or factory. The records I have for small frame S&Ws, where ivory is indicated, do not say plain or carved - just " ivory " and the serial number & model. A very small perentage of total production is listed as " ivory " stocked and mostly in the lower serial numbers early in production. For any of you who may have a Revolving Rifle with an ivory stock, you're out of luck as the records I have for those guns do not indicate what the stock material was, so I think probably all were walnut or mottled red hard rubber, and any with ivory may be an aftermarket addition. Ed
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A picture of the the ones that look like the HR would be nice
opoefc
US Veteran
IBY, I SOLD THOSE CARVED IVORY "HR" COPIES TO FORUM MEMBER " GRIPS GUY" YRS AGO. ED
mmaher94087
Member
oxi81, please do not hold your breath as the <SH> was Shyler Hartly, a major distributor of Smith & Wesson in New York. I have a 2nd Model Russian that is nicely engraved with Ivory stocks. I believe the engraving and Ivory was added by SH.
Schuyler, Hartley and Graham (without the Graham)? That is a confusing company since the stamping does not seem to fit the timeline for the name changes made. It would seem that it should have been SH&G during until 1880 and HG should have been next but never SH?
I have this information.
Jacob Rutsen Schuyler (1816-1887), Marcellus Hartley (1828-1902) and Malcolm Graham (1832-1899) incorporated their company on March 1, 1854. In 1876 Schuyler retired from the company and by 1880 they changed the name to Hartley and Graham. Schuyler died in 1887. Malcolm Graham died in December 1899 and the company was reincorporated as M. Hartley Company. Marcellus Hartley died on January 8, 1902.
I have this information.
Jacob Rutsen Schuyler (1816-1887), Marcellus Hartley (1828-1902) and Malcolm Graham (1832-1899) incorporated their company on March 1, 1854. In 1876 Schuyler retired from the company and by 1880 they changed the name to Hartley and Graham. Schuyler died in 1887. Malcolm Graham died in December 1899 and the company was reincorporated as M. Hartley Company. Marcellus Hartley died on January 8, 1902.
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That is totally AWESOME!!
opoefc
US Veteran
I don't have a clue how to post a photo, however for those who keep track, I have a late production .38SA Baby Russian, ser. # 22994, 90% nickel with factory shipped ivory stocks. One of only 4 Baby Russians shipped with factory ivory stocks, per Jinks "History of S&W" page 107. The stocks are numbered in very faint pencil on back side of right panel and are in very good condition but show their age with yellowing and a couple of small hairline cracks, but no chips or loss.. Ed
I have a early 38 SA Baby Russian shipped in 1876 to M.W. Robinson with ivory grips, the grips are numbered to the gun on the back in ink. However according to Roy's letter the gun was shipped with hard rubber grips. It's possible that dealers numbered the stocks when they replaced the factory originals.
B. Mower
Distributor work
Lengthy studies of early Major distributors reveals they would go to any length to sell a gun to a customer. That includes customizing, refinishing, engraving, modifying, changing or replacing parts. Most of the large distributor houses had an on-site gunsmith and refinishing facilities along with an indoor shooting range that would actually allow the customer to test fire a gun before purchase.
I have confirmed guns that were factory
Shipped blued with wood grips that ended up
Engraved, nickeled, with ivory or Pearl
Grips and cased. All performed by the distributor.
When fitting grips many distributors would follow the same procedure as large gun makers. So numbering grips would be part of the procedure if a refinish with replacement grips was part of the contract. Often Distributor fit grips are found extremely well done.
That's basically why original factory ivory or Pearl grips are often rare. The distributor did it all on site. Which was very convenient
For the customer. It's hard to actually comprehend that level of service today.
Murph
Lengthy studies of early Major distributors reveals they would go to any length to sell a gun to a customer. That includes customizing, refinishing, engraving, modifying, changing or replacing parts. Most of the large distributor houses had an on-site gunsmith and refinishing facilities along with an indoor shooting range that would actually allow the customer to test fire a gun before purchase.
I have confirmed guns that were factory
Shipped blued with wood grips that ended up
Engraved, nickeled, with ivory or Pearl
Grips and cased. All performed by the distributor.
When fitting grips many distributors would follow the same procedure as large gun makers. So numbering grips would be part of the procedure if a refinish with replacement grips was part of the contract. Often Distributor fit grips are found extremely well done.
That's basically why original factory ivory or Pearl grips are often rare. The distributor did it all on site. Which was very convenient
For the customer. It's hard to actually comprehend that level of service today.
Murph
Here is a TL with factory ivory. I know for a fact it did not ship that way, as I applied them myself.
Regards,
Bruce
Regards,
Bruce
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