There's a video I found that I think is showing what you're talking about. It's not clear, but I think I get the idea:
Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 Ejector (Extractor) Fix - YouTube
Failures to Eject with (Pretty) New 15-22
- Thread starter rraisley
- Start date
Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 Ejector (Extractor) Fix - YouTube
Okay, using the above information, I bent slightly the ejector to have it run closely to the bolt, and went shooting for the first time after mods last week. I had bought 3 new S&W 25-round mags, in addition to the one that came with the gun, and was using Federal Classic and Federal American Eagle, 36 gr copper jacketed hollow point about equally (hard to buy copper non-hollow point for any decent price).
I got probably an average of 3 or 4 failure-to-ejects with each mag, about equal with each of the ammo types used. Hideous and embarrassing, as my friend, running a much-maligned H&K Umarex, had not one single problem. The problem seemed to get better, the more I shot, and toward the end of about 500 rounds usually got through a mag without a FTE, but not always.
I had cleaned and lubricated, properly I believe, prior to going to the range, using M-Pro cleaner and lube. I may have lubed heavier than necessary (not saying I did, saying I may have), as the dealer I purchased from said they liked to run wet, which I have read here is not true.
I've now tried cleaning/lubing with Eezox, which basically runs dry after cleaning, to see if that helps, but haven't shot that way yet. Now, I only have roughly 1,000 rounds through the gun so far, but I'm sure you'll all agree that this is rather atrocious performance (and far from typical, based on what I've read).
I saw no difference with any of the magazines, the only tendency being to less FTE's the more I shot, leading me to the possible overlubrication as a possibility.
Any other thoughts?
I got probably an average of 3 or 4 failure-to-ejects with each mag, about equal with each of the ammo types used. Hideous and embarrassing, as my friend, running a much-maligned H&K Umarex, had not one single problem. The problem seemed to get better, the more I shot, and toward the end of about 500 rounds usually got through a mag without a FTE, but not always.
I had cleaned and lubricated, properly I believe, prior to going to the range, using M-Pro cleaner and lube. I may have lubed heavier than necessary (not saying I did, saying I may have), as the dealer I purchased from said they liked to run wet, which I have read here is not true.
I've now tried cleaning/lubing with Eezox, which basically runs dry after cleaning, to see if that helps, but haven't shot that way yet. Now, I only have roughly 1,000 rounds through the gun so far, but I'm sure you'll all agree that this is rather atrocious performance (and far from typical, based on what I've read).
I saw no difference with any of the magazines, the only tendency being to less FTE's the more I shot, leading me to the possible overlubrication as a possibility.
Any other thoughts?
Geez, I dunno. I reassembled my SBR last week, took it out, shot 350 rounds without any issues at all. I run it DRY. I put a drop of clp on the rails where it slides on the bolt and thats it. I know you said it was clean, so I wont harp on that, just make sure there isnt a bunch of crud packed inside the ejector hook. How does it function if you cycle a round by hand? does the round stick at all in the chamber?
No crud anywhere. I didn't cycle a round by hand, so not sure about that (tried that when diagnosing a feeding problem on my Hi-Standard, and ended up with a bullet in my den floor, an irate wife, a red face and almost an end to shooting). The FTE's can end up perpendicular to the bore and flattened, or parallel. It wasn't /dry/, as I said. But I wouldn't have thought a little too much lube (if that's it) would have caused this.
Aceman58
Member
One of the things I do on a new rifle or handgun.. I clean it first with Hopp #9, very very light oil... wipe down dry.. Why, breaking in the weapon with all of its moving parts. It needs to seat itself, let the metal rub and wear itself, break that sucker in is what I'm saying. After about 500 rounds, then clean again, oil, wipe down dry again and do another 500. Then clean and oil her with oil or Tretra Lube or any one of the good gun oils. I do that with all my rifles as well as handguns and never have issues with them.. Good luck.
DelFuego
Member
I was having your issue too with the Federal Bulk packs. I've since switched to CCI Blazer and Winchester M-22 bulk packs and have not had any problems. I've shot over 4,000 rounds through mine over the last two months.
Erno86
Member
May I suggest that you stick with the CCI Blazer 525 bulk round packs if your looking for accuracy and economy as in my "Best Buy."
Federal...has to much velocity deviation in its rounds, which makes it have failure to eject and accuracy problems. Same goes for the Winchester M-22's, in which I was extremely disapointed in its function and accuracy in my 22 dedicated upper's.
Federal...has to much velocity deviation in its rounds, which makes it have failure to eject and accuracy problems. Same goes for the Winchester M-22's, in which I was extremely disapointed in its function and accuracy in my 22 dedicated upper's.
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I won't use solid lead supersonic rounds. That was beaten into me from my pistol days, and hasn't fallen out yet. I might change my mind in the future, but for now, I feel I need copper jacketed to prevent lead buildup.
I'm very surprised that velocity deviation could cause a failure to eject, when much larger differences between ammo types and manufacturers does not. But I won't say it can't.
Majorlk
Member
Modern lead .22 bullets are all lubricated to one degree or another. Winchester uses their lubaloy technology and other manufacturers use something similar, or at least a wax coating. Leading is nowhere near the problem it was even 20 years ago.
UPDATE:
Went shooting today, firing 225 rounds of Federal Champion bulk and 225 rounds of CCI AR Tactical. I had cleaned the gun last time with Eezox, wiping all excess off, and added no other lubricant. The resultant failure to ejects were:
Federal: 11 FTE
CCI: 6 FTE
So, CCI was better than Federal by almost 2:1, but even 6 FTEs in 225 rounds is IMHO way too much.
More concerning, one round when fired felt different after feeding, so I checked the bolt and saw that the bolt had not gone into battery, but was about 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. Thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger! I ejected it, removed the mag, and inserted it back in manually. It didn't go in the full way. Releasing the slide ended up with it again 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. I thought at the time it was one of the Federals (wanting to blame the cheaper bulk ammo), but kept the round for measuring and realized after I got home it was one of the CCIs.
I've measured the case and bullet of the round that would not go into battery, as well as others, and found that while the cases seem about the same, the bullet diameter of the round that would not go into battery was about 0.004" larger in diameter (0.227"+ vs 0.223"). And I really do NOT like the idea that the 15-22 would have fired the round that far out of battery. That bothers the hell out of me (and would have done more than that, had I fired it).
So, I've lubed with a quality lube, not over-lubed, tried quality ammo, and still have a problem. 17 FTEs in 450 rounds is not acceptable to me. Time to contact S&W?
Went shooting today, firing 225 rounds of Federal Champion bulk and 225 rounds of CCI AR Tactical. I had cleaned the gun last time with Eezox, wiping all excess off, and added no other lubricant. The resultant failure to ejects were:
Federal: 11 FTE
CCI: 6 FTE
So, CCI was better than Federal by almost 2:1, but even 6 FTEs in 225 rounds is IMHO way too much.
More concerning, one round when fired felt different after feeding, so I checked the bolt and saw that the bolt had not gone into battery, but was about 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. Thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger! I ejected it, removed the mag, and inserted it back in manually. It didn't go in the full way. Releasing the slide ended up with it again 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. I thought at the time it was one of the Federals (wanting to blame the cheaper bulk ammo), but kept the round for measuring and realized after I got home it was one of the CCIs.
I've measured the case and bullet of the round that would not go into battery, as well as others, and found that while the cases seem about the same, the bullet diameter of the round that would not go into battery was about 0.004" larger in diameter (0.227"+ vs 0.223"). And I really do NOT like the idea that the 15-22 would have fired the round that far out of battery. That bothers the hell out of me (and would have done more than that, had I fired it).
So, I've lubed with a quality lube, not over-lubed, tried quality ammo, and still have a problem. 17 FTEs in 450 rounds is not acceptable to me. Time to contact S&W?
Gopher Slayer
Member
So, just got off the phone with S&W. The fellow in service told me he felt that 17 FTE in 450 rounds was an acceptable number for a .22! REALLY??? If they feel that is acceptable, then what reason is there to even send it back? He suggested I try CCI SUBSONIC! (despite the fact that the manual says to use absolutely NO subsonic). Do they know what they're doing there??
Sorry, this has me a little hot. I'm beginning to think this was a huge mistake, as I can definitely say I do not enjoy shooting this gun.
bobbydachin
Member
Wow, your xp is a bit unsettling. I was just over worrying about oob issues with the 15-22. On the good side I have heard nothing but good things about S&W customer service. Sorry brother
Yeah, I consider the whole thing unsettling. While I'm shooting my 15-22, the fellow with me shot equal rounds on his Colt AR-style and M&P, and other than 1 light strike on the Colt had zero problems. This is downright embarrassing. I just wish I hadn't bought $600 worth of accessories for this gun before I knew about its reliability (or lack of same). Mind you, I know most people here are thrilled with their 15-22s, but mine is headed for the back of the closet.
copper06
Member
Good quality pictures of the various parts mentioned by several posters so they can possibly help determine if you've overlooked something?
Also take a camera to the range with you when next you go so you can take some pictures of the stoppages you're encountering to help diagnose those.
I can relate to it sucking but empower yourself in trying to fix the issue(s). Speaking to only one customer service rep. is not the end all/be all.
I'd try the pictures, do some more research, try some other ammo and yes, call S&W back. Get a name, date, time you called as in our day and age, you have to keep a paper trail.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that the pictures alone will help solve some or most of the problems. It's worth a shot!
Also take a camera to the range with you when next you go so you can take some pictures of the stoppages you're encountering to help diagnose those.
I can relate to it sucking but empower yourself in trying to fix the issue(s). Speaking to only one customer service rep. is not the end all/be all.
I'd try the pictures, do some more research, try some other ammo and yes, call S&W back. Get a name, date, time you called as in our day and age, you have to keep a paper trail.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that the pictures alone will help solve some or most of the problems. It's worth a shot!
Erno86
Member
I would tend to agree with the S&W service man --- that you only had 6 FTE's from the CCI's --- is acceptable. The Federal's... with only 11 FTE's --- is also acceptable. It is a blowback gun, and bulk ammo is not made perfect with every round. You have a good feel for the rifle --- when you felt that the bolt did not fully go into battery with the rifle.
It is the OOB's that scare me. I would try to not have many people stand near the ejection port, or your hand on the magazine below the magazine well if an OOB goes off. How far, and how fast, does bits of brass fly from the ejection port from an OOB premature detonation from a 22 rifle or pistol?
It is the OOB's that scare me. I would try to not have many people stand near the ejection port, or your hand on the magazine below the magazine well if an OOB goes off. How far, and how fast, does bits of brass fly from the ejection port from an OOB premature detonation from a 22 rifle or pistol?
hkyplr
Member
I would agree with rraisley, that is too many FTE's. I just shot about 315 rounds mix of Federal Champion bulk and CCI Blazer with 1 FTF and that is all. I think I can count on one hand the amount of Failures I have had in the approx 2,000 rounds I have put through this rifle, all "cheap" ammo, with none of them being FTE.
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
